Class abilities vs Talents (or both?)

[KarinsDad]

I havent heard the designers say anything about "talent trees." We know that all classes will be getting more abilities, combat maneuvers (I know thats spelled wrong) , per encounter stuff etc, but as near as I can tell it will still be class abilities. In some cases, probably class abilities were you get to choose from several options at the level at which it becomes available.

Doubtful.

I suspect it will be nearly identical to SWSE in this game mechanics aspect because they will want the core game mechanics to be similar so that a new player to 4E or a new player to SWSE can understand how to build a PC if they have played the other game system, even though they do not know the specific details.

In SWSE, Talents are class abilities (and when I was playing SW, I wanted Talents more than I wanted Feats). The Talents a Jedi can get are not the Talents a Scout can get. And the few non-talent non-feat Class Abilities in the game are reserved for Prestige Classes. Starting classes do not have specific additional class abilities (outside of talents, feats, and skills).

When one spreads it out to 30 class levels, that allows for 15 Talents and 26 Feats.

And, this helps to resolve one of the escalation problems of 3E. There are hundreds and hundreds of feats and a given PC can only take 7 of them or so. Having about a hundred feats in the core rules and a given PC can eventually take 26 of them makes the player feel like he has access to most of the ones he wants.

But, where I agree with you is that I doubt the designers will make spell casting a feat or a talent. I do think that maneuvers will probably be acquired out of talent trees.

 

[Merlion]

Doubtful.

I suspect it will be nearly identical to SWSE in this game mechanics aspect because they will want the core game mechanics to be similar so that a new player to 4E or a new player to SWSE can understand how to build a PC if they have played the other game system, even though they do not know the specific details.

In SWSE, Talents are class abilities (and when I was playing SW, I wanted Talents more than I wanted Feats). The Talents a Jedi can get are not the Talents a Scout can get. And the few non-talent non-feat Class Abilities in the game are reserved for Prestige Classes. Starting classes do not have specific additional class abilities (outside of talents, feats, and skills).

When one spreads it out to 30 class levels, that allows for 15 Talents and 26 Feats.

And, this helps to resolve one of the escalation problems of 3E. There are hundreds and hundreds of feats and a given PC can only take 7 of them or so. Having about a hundred feats in the core rules and a given PC can eventually take 26 of them makes the player feel like he has access to most of the ones he wants.

But, where I agree with you is that I doubt the designers will make spell casting a feat or a talent. I do think that maneuvers will probably be acquired out of talent trees.

If they do go that route, I think its safe to say that one of two things will be the case. Either all classes wont necessarily get the same number of "talents", or there will be a higher incidence of "class abilities" than you describe. Because there are as I mentioned certain aspects and abilities of most classes that people are going to expect to simply have, and I'm not sure how much they will be willing to change that.


Also again I feel that the "at will" abilities will most likely exist outside of any talent tree system, as will spellcasting and perhaps other abilities.

No way to really know for sure at this point tho...but there are some big difference between a Star Wars RPG and D&D in terms of whats trying to be achieved, so I'm sure there will be differences.

I dont really care much, personally, as long as classes still keep their core identities, but gain more options as well.

 

[Remathilis]

My Theory is that each class will have at any given level

A Class Feature,
A Talent, or
A Bonus Feat

Wash, Rinse, Repeat

The difference?

A Class Feature is something absolutely vital to the class that no other class can get, but every member of this class automatically has. Fighters would get weapon maneuvers, wizards and clerics spells, and rogues sneak attack. Its the backbone of the class.

A Talent is something secondary that customizes your PC's other abilities. Armor Talents, Evasion, Metamagic, Turn Undead, etc. A Cleric is still a cleric without Turn Undead, but he needs his spells to be a cleric. A Talent represents that and allows diversity.

A Bonus Feat is just that: an extra feat. Usually from a small list of options per class. Normal feats (1, 3, 6) can either further enhance a feat-tree selection OR allow for more branching out (a rogue who takes diehard as a feat, but uses his Bonus feats for Imp. Init or Weapon Finesse)

This allows each class its chosen role (striker, leader, etc), a lot of customization (talents, feats) and a lot of personal flavor.

I might be dead wrong, but thats my hunch...

 

[KarinsDad]

No way to really know for sure at this point tho...but there are some big difference between a Star Wars RPG and D&D in terms of whats trying to be achieved, so I'm sure there will be differences.

Not really. Both are trying to achieve heroic fantasy. In fact, Eberron is half Star Wars (e.g. droids = warforged, core worlds = five nations, etc.).

I dont really care much, personally, as long as classes still keep their core identities, but gain more options as well.

Agreed.

 

[Oldtimer]

Another alternative is that Tracking might become a feat that Rangers get for free at first level.

Well, someone has to come out and say it soon - it might as well be me:
Tracking already is a feat that Rangers get for free at first level.

 

[Merlion]

Not really. Both are trying to achieve heroic fantasy. In fact, Eberron is half Star Wars (e.g. droids = warforged, core worlds = five nations, etc.).

But a rather different heroic fantasy. Theres a lot more magic in D&D and it takes a lot more different forms, for example.

Star Wars is fantasy but it doesnt work with as many fantasy/fairytale archtypes.