Class balance changes in revised PHB?

[Droogie]

just to add my 2 cents.

the bard needs a few more skill points. not as many as the rogue but a couple. I mean they are primarily skill based characters!

I think most of us agree with you, but I think the rogue is the real skill class. IMO the bard is supposed to be the "jack-of-all-trades, master of none." As mentioned previously, there is nothing scribed in stone that says that you have to max every skill. HOWEVER, I suppose I would like to see the bard with a few extra skill points, but I'm actually doubtful that it will happen. Remember the backward compatability issue. The ramifications of two little extra skill points is huge.

 

[Ace]

I think they will implement a classless system usping VP/WP, defense bonuses with level progression and updated Etools with every book.

I wish they would. That would rock on toast

 

[Ace]

The easiest solution to the skill pouint issue is to give veryone 2 extra skill points. Combine that with a slightly expanded skills list FREX Fighters get Knowledge War and everyone gets Profession and Craft.

This refocuses the game onto skills and bit and IME works really well

There is also precident with Wheel of Time and Star Wars

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Rangers

2) Remove TWF/Ambidexterity as core abilities. Replace with bonus feats at 1, 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20. Include as bonus feat options TWF and related, point blank and related, toughness, alertness, and others.

Balance and compatability would be served. It would be more customizable. The TWF crowd would be appeased, as would the no-TWF crowd, and the archery crowd, too. The class would be no more front-loaded than the fighter, and would have abilities to twiddle almost every level.

No more front loaded than the fighter?!?

Let me see, your ranger has d10 hit points, martial weapons, 4 skill points from an excellent skill list, track, and one other bonus feat at first level. At second level, d10 hit points, 4 skill points from an excellent skill list, and another bonus feat.

The fighter has d10 hit points, martial weapons, 2 skill points from a pathetic skill list, and one bonus feat at first and second level.

It looks to me like the Ranger is one feat ahead (track), and 2 skill points ahead on an infinitely better skill list.

Under that revision, I don't think there would ever be another first level fighter again. You'd probably see lots of Ranger 2/Fighter x's though. Or Ranger 1/Fighter xs for the people who want cleave and Weapon focus ASAP. The only things the fighter would give up by choosing Ranger first would be the ability to have Power attack, cleave, weapon focus at first level and heavy armor proficiency. Of course, characters are generally third level by the time they can afford worthwhile heavy armor anyway. It wouldn't be much of a sacrifice to wear chain mail or a breastplate until then.

 

[Kichwas]

The Ranger lost it's concept for me when it got the whole two-weapan angle.

There is no reason for any of that to be built into the class. It may fit perhaps one concept of one particular fictional ranger, which makes it something a character should just take as a feat.

They didn't have this ability in 1E as far as I can recall, and there it was in 3E. Not sure when it came in exactly, but it doesn't belong there.

That said, I seriously doubt they would ever consider taking it away, because most people I've heard who play Rangers do it specifically for that ability and not so much for the 'Ranger' aspect of rangers...

-shrug-

 

[Kichwas]

Maybe if the sorc got just a few more spells learned that would fix it up. Nothing major just a few.

If you have a tight-wad DM, who doesn't give the players LOTS of research time, then barring zero level spells the Wizard at level 20 will only have a few more spells than the sorcerer. However, the Sorcerer will have full on the fly access to her entire spell list without the need of a spellbook and preplaning, as well as being able to use many more of them per day.

In my personal experience, in the typical dungeon crawl campaign, the sorcerer outpowers the Wizard.

In a slower paced, perhaps Urban game or game with a lot of down time, a Wizard will balance out and with a crafty enough player who know their DM's style well enough, exceed the Sorcerer.

But that's my opinion.

 

[Steverooo]

So IMPROVE him!

The fighter has d10 hit points, martial weapons, 2 skill points from a pathetic skill list, and one bonus feat at first and second level.

So, improve the Fighter! He already has more Feats than anybody else. Add some new skills. Maybe open Spot and Listen to anyone. Certainly add Intimidate (and fix it to include bonus/penalty for relative levels, as a tenth level mage should be more intimidating than a first level Fighter). I can't really see them getting Forgery (although they'd need it to detect false orders). In the face of a lack of any other signalling skill, maybe Innuendo...

Maybe the best idea would be just to allow Fighters to select X number of skills to add to their list (with skill points added to cover them), maybe from a selected list?

 

[hong]

Re: So IMPROVE him!

So, improve the Fighter!

Let us assume now that exogenous power inflation is something that should be avoided just because someone is suffering from a mild case of MFNC* syndrome.


* My Favourite Ninja Class

 

[Zappo]

- evenly balance all the schools of magic.

I'd just be happy if they copied some mid-to-high-level necromancy and divination spells from cleric to wizard.

Originally posted by KnowTheToe
I think they will implement a classless system usping WP/VP, defense bonuses with level progression and updated Etools with every book.

And change the magical system to Ars Magica's one, don't forget.

 

[Apok]

Alot of really good ideas in this thread so far. I especially like MThibault's idea for Bards using the Perform skill to increase their DC's. Monte Cook already incorporated this concept into his alt.Bard from the BoEMII but it could easily be ported over.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet but I'd like to see;

Reconciling a Bards Light and Medium Armor proficiency with their Spellcasting.

As it stands now, the Bard is the only class that has two abilities which directly conflict with each other without some form of workaround. They have two excellent armor profs but they suffer spell failure chance because their spells are arcane. This blows bigtime and I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out what the heck the designers were thinking when they did this. The best fix I can think of to this issue is either a) change the Bards spellcasting from Arcane to Divine or b) give them some class ability that lets them ignore some percentage of ASF while wearing armor, ala the Spellsword.

The only other way to deal with the issue would be to get rid of their armor profs or their spellcasting. In either case, the Bard better get something damn good to compensate.