Class Building, Advice Please?

[Sylrae]

I have a player who wants to play a green dragon.

This means natural attacks instead of iterative attacks.
The way I'm doing it is putting together a class he can progress through, as well as special levels he has to meet pre-reqs to take. The special levels move him through age categories and progress his natural attacks and size (I'm contemplating putting the natural armor in here as well.)

The table in the bestiary on page 291 covers upper bound and lower bound ranges for average damage and stuff for monsters of different CRs. Are those around the same numbers I should use as guidelines for putting together this class? Are they too high? Too low?

Let me know what you think.

Maybe a few tables like this, for players of different roles, would be useful.

 

[Glade Riven]

Sounds like power creep waiting to happen...

I'd probably start with converting the Monk class. Unarmed Martial Progression = Natural Attack Progression and AC Progression = Natural Armor progression.

From there....I'm not sure.

Maybe work on converting Dragon Disciple into a full draconic class?

Actually, an interesting story for this character would be that it is a green dragon that is under a "curse" put on it by a parent to protect it. Advancement in Sorcerer with the Draconic Bloodline and Dragon Disciple is fluffed as the weakening of the curse. At the end of the campaign (level 20), the curse is completely broken (concept brought to you by Breath of Fire JRPG series).

 

[Sylrae]

Sounds like power creep waiting to happen...

I'm generally open to unusual ideas.
I told him I'd let him play it if he helped me with a mountain of prep-work for the campaign, and so long as he accepted I'll be making a point to put him on the same power level as all other player characters.

I want most of what he gets to closely mirror what a green dragon gets as it progresses. But I'll slow the progression down as much as necessary to stop things from getting out of control.

I'd probably start with converting the Monk class. Unarmed Martial Progression = Natural Attack Progression and AC Progression = Natural Armor progression.

This isn't a bad Idea. I probably won't do a conversion, but this sounds like a good place to start for guidelines for damage output and natural armor.

From there....I'm not sure.

Maybe work on converting Dragon Disciple into a full draconic class

Hmm. I'll give it a look. Not sure that'll work out so great, but it's not a bad suggestion.

Actually, an interesting story for this character would be that it is a green dragon that is under a "curse" put on it by a parent to protect it. Advancement in Sorcerer with the Draconic Bloodline and Dragon Disciple is fluffed as the weakening of the curse. At the end of the campaign (level 20), the curse is completely broken (concept brought to you by Breath of Fire JRPG series).

I suggested something like that. He's more interested in playing a dragon, so he's starting out as a particularly weak wyrmling, and then he'll advance into wyrmling and beyond.

I'll look into the suggestions you made, and then I'll go from there. Thanks a bunch.

When I'll be back here in a bit.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I have a player who wants to play a green dragon.

This means natural attacks instead of iterative attacks.
The way I'm doing it is putting together a class he can progress through, as well as special levels he has to meet pre-reqs to take. The special levels move him through age categories and progress his natural attacks and size (I'm contemplating putting the natural armor in here as well.)

The table in the bestiary on page 291 covers upper bound and lower bound ranges for average damage and stuff for monsters of different CRs. Are those around the same numbers I should use as guidelines for putting together this class? Are they too high? Too low?

Let me know what you think.

Maybe a few tables like this, for players of different roles, would be useful.

Might be better to make him play this:
Giant in the Playground Forums - View Single Post - [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

Just change breath weapon to acid.
Much more balanced version than Monster by CR idea. Levels up by level.

 

[Sylrae]

I've been following that thread since it started, I'm not a fan of how they build the classes. It was a nice suggestion though.

They tie racial adjustments into class levels (I see that as bad design), and many of the monsters don't get everything they would get as a monster. I think eventually you should get everything or just about everything, including ability modifiers.

So I see that thread as a source of inspiration maybe, but wouldn't use or allow very much from it as is.

 

[Crothian]

I think I would handle it kind of like they handle exotic animal companions. Balance it with the other races with attribute bonuses, maybe a few neat racial powers, and go from there.

 

[Kvantum]

Track down a copy of Dragon Magazine #332. It has v3.5 20-level monster classes for the chromatic dragons. You'll likely want to adapt it some as well as simply converting it - for example there are no spell-like abilities listed.

 

[Sylrae]

Yeah. The way I've decided to handle it is:
Base Race + Classes.

Problem I've found with Dragons, when you spread their abilities out:

They are basically 3-way Gestalt characters (Monk, Fighter, Bard with sorcerer Spell-List).

So I'm trying to de-gestalt the dragon so I can give it to the player.

I'm going to do 3 'Talent Trees' for those who know WoW, wherein the player can take DPS levels, Tanking Levels, or Caster Levels. I've figured out damage for the dps.

Here's what I could use a hand with.

What sorts of defenses should a tank have on the way up to 20th? Can someone show m a decent build that shows what the fighter gets for AC (Before Feats or magic gear) by the time he hits 20?

I want to gauge how to progress the AC advancement. I'll try to figure it out on my own, but I don't normally play the Tank types.

What types of ACs should I be going for if I were to compare the dragon to a fighter? Taking into account armor training and whatnot.

 

[Crothian]

You might just ask the player what he wants the Dragion to be able to do and then tailor the class to that. With luck the player will help set limits by what he want the character to be able to do.