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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6198492" data-attributes="member: 2525">It's helpful as I explained later, I was answering your question as to whether I would care  Now THAT is not an answer.  3e is a version of D&D and thus an edition whose experiences we can draw on as clear examples of what things are helpful or harmful in terms of "disputes", which seems to be your biggest beef.  And plenty of the kinds of people who complain online about rules read those supplements, and I do not recall one single complaint of the nature you're talking about.  Just because a prestige class that was usable by fighters happened to be in, say, the divine-themed supplement, not one person was bent out of shape or confused or bothered by this in the least.  And yet you claim it will be a major source of disruption and dispute.  How people reacted to similar issues in the past is directly relevant to how they are likely to react in the future - a heck of a lot more relevant than your personal guess.Only because you think the problem is something different than what it is.Problem 1: How to save space in the booksSolution: ShorthandProblem 2: How to organize the books in a manner where people can find the material quickerSolution: Group some things by broad classificationsProblem 3: How to get people to be more willing to transition from Basic to Advanced D&DSolution: Add tags to more complex classes that sends the signal that they are similar to the classes found in the Basic book.See, those are all real problems, and this helps with the solutions.  Space-saving, organization, and transitioning people to advanced are all real issues, not fictional ones.For every single sub-class, including all future ones? Why waste all that space? Why repeat all that stuff?How can it possibly cover classes that have not been released yet, that they might not even know about yet? Also, why would you spell out all the classes, when you can just use the shorthand of a single word that means a bunch of classes (including ones not even thought of yet that will eventually be released)?This ignores the "rare" part for magic items.  You won't need any exceptions - it only gets used when they actually mean the whole group.What if you don't agree any mage-themed class should use such staffs? That's a house-rule, like any other house-rule.  You just said above they should include all the classes in the item itself that it's supposed to apply to, so your "issue" would be just as complicated with your prior solution anyway.  Point being, you're not disputing the classification system itself with this issue.Now I call baloney, and this is an example of creating a problem where there is one.  This is like any other rule in the book.  You know what AC means, right?  You're not confused it means the number attached to the armor, as opposed to the relative weight of it, or the social class of the people who wear it, or the types of classes who wear them, right? They will define the class name (I used Rogue because that is the placeholder currently in use, but others argue it should be Traveler or whatever), and it will be as easy to understand as any other rule, capitalized, probably with brackets, to make it really clear it's a tag next to something.  This is a made-up problem. Does the fighter class have [Rogue] tagged next to it? No? Well then they DON'T MEAN HIM.  This is not a difficult concept to grasp.  It's like plenty of rules you have no problem with at all.  Now if you don't like what the author of the adventure intends for that encounter, and you want your fighter to be allowed in for whatever reasons, you will of course do that - JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE ADVENTURE.  It's purely shorthand.  You would not be disputing this if the adventure said "The Thief Kind only permits Thieves, Rangers, and Bards in his hideout", right? You wouldn't be confused then, even though it has the exact same meaning as using the pre-defined shorthand, right? I explained, and you ignored, why it is helpful. I will summarize it again: to say that some classes are somewhat similar to other classes.  Which is what organization means.  Movement in combat is not identical to movement overland which is not identical to movement on a boat, but all three are in the broad Movement section of the book.  Fighters and Barbarians are not identical, but both are in the broad Warrior section of the book.   Let me be real clear here: you're insulting me when you say that.  You're calling me a liar.  I already said repeatedly it's helpful for me, and I gave an example of when it would have been helpful in another edition. Two other people in this forum have said it would be helpful for them.  I explained the theory for new players transitioning from Basic to Advanced edition, and how I encountered those kinds of issues long ago when I made that transition.  This isn't some mythical issue that you can just handwaive away.  You cannot pretend nobody finds it helpful WHEN MULTIPLE PEOPLE TELL YOU THEY FIND IT HELPFUL.  So please, cut that out.  This isn't just about you and your preferences and what you find helpful.  It's your opinion it's not helpful for you, but you don't get to speak for everyone on this issue.I have, repeatedly.  It tends to happen when you have a group of older adults who are all married with children and tough jobs and they don't have the time to spend reading through it all.  They find the quantity of choices difficult to work with in the short time they have, and could use some shorthand guidelines that help direct them to the things they need faster.  X is like Y is one of those types of guidelines that are helpful, just like Movement Overland and Movement in a Dungeon are helpfully found in the same section of the book under the tag "Movement".Yeah, all this means is you're being dismissive of other people's opinions, telling them in a backhanded way they're just lying when they say it's helpful for their groups, and hand-waiving the issues.  I have not convinced YOU, but you don't speak for everybody, and you just claimed you did.</blockquote>

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