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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DMZ2112" data-source="post: 6210115" data-attributes="member: 78752">Ah, the TABLEMANCER!  Does he get his own hardback?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I kid -- while this idea does have some pretty tall logistical hurdles to execution, I think it, and your divisions between mentalists and arcanists, are great ideas.  I definitely come down with you on spell list specificity, I think -- one of the most important ways to differentiate classes with spell lists is that their spell lists should do things that support their archetype and not do things that do not support their archetype.I could not agree more!I am absolutely in agreement on this point; the Knights Templar and Hospitaler and other orders sponsored by the Church were said to be "twice-armored," meaning that both steel and their faith protected them, but the knights did not have any religious powers or responsibilities vested in them by that sponsorship.Within the game, I definitely feel that the most important characteristic of a class archetype should be the way it plays, and your assessment of the importance of STR to the paladin vs. the cleric is exactly the sort of thing I mean, and the reason why I don't place it under the "cleric" banner....I don't place it under "fighter," either, but that's only because I don't see any reason why the paladin power suite can't be equally as easily applied to a rogue or mage.  My thinking here was, why have one subclass (paladin), when you can have seven or eight class variants benefiting from the same feat track? I think that is very sound, but the question it raises is what does that look like on paper?  I can think of half a dozen examples without really stopping to consider it, and they would all play vastly differently.  I could easily reskin any of the seven or eight archetypes I've proposed such that they relied on a deity's power to achieve their class goals.My point is not that all clerics are healers with a spell list -- only that all D&D Clerics are.  Some compression is necessary to effect playability.</blockquote>

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