DMZ2112
Chaotic Looseleaf
This idea is kind of forked from the discussion on class groups – I found myself diverging from the topic at hand to dwell on class archetypes and what makes a class worthy of distinctiveness, and it led to this “experiment.”
I took a minute and reviewed a list of classes mostly drawn from D&D3 and the Pathfinder APG to see how many true archetypes I felt there were represented in the list. I omitted D&D4 mostly due to sheer volume, although perceived redundancy was also a consideration. I mean no disrespect.
Out of 28 classes I found seven archetrypes (possibly six, possibly eight): Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Druid, Psion, and Summoner. I think seven is a good number, and what’s more I like the ratio: one archetype for every four historical D&D classes sounds about right, drawing from personal experience.
So what’s an archetype? The criterion I’m using is that a class archetype should be defined by WHAT a character does. A character of a specific class ought to do a thing that is reflected in every member of that class and not reflected by any other class. Exactly HOW the character does this thing should be determined by his subclass.
So by this definition (which largely ignores mechanics, I realize), the wizard, the sorcerer, and the warlock are part of the same archetype, which is to say, ‘spellcaster.’ It’s difficult (for me, at least) to find a truly archetypal division between those three classes.
I think the aforementioned eight class archetypes are unique in that they are not derivative of any other class, and their skill sets are sufficiently self-definitive that they cannot generally be applied to another archetype without fundamentally altering that archetype into something else (i.e., a fighter with wizard spells is a wizard and a fighter [and a multiclass character], but a fighter with ranger abilities is ultimately just a survivalist fighter).
I believe every other class in the list could be better devised as either a subclass of an existing archetype or a feat track available to any class. Let me know what you think:
Cleric – Archetype. Healer.
Fighter – Archetype. Combatant.
Rogue – Archetype. Operative.
Wizard – Archetype. Spellcaster.
Barbarian – Fighter subclass. Rager.
Bard –See below.
Druid – Archetype. Shifter.
Monk – Feat track. Qigong. (But a strong case could be made for archetype status, given how no other classes focus on internal magic.)
Ranger – Feat track. Survivalist.
Paladin – Feat track. Saint. (Meaning a divinely inspired individual with innate powers rather than spells)
Sorcerer – Wizard subclass. Non-academic.
Warlock – Wizard subclass. Pacted.
Warlord – Feat track. Tactical.
Ninja – Rogue with the Monk feat track.
Samurai – Fighter subclass. Bushido. (Really just a reskin of a knight [chivalry])
Shugenja – Cleric subclass. Shinto.
Tattooed Monk – Monk subclass. Tattoos.
Wu Jen – Wizard subclass. Tao.
Psion – Archetype. Mentalist. (I’m not a big fan of psionics, personally, but I’ve always felt that if they were going to be around, they could easily be made definitively separate from magic.)
Psychic Warrior – Feat track. Psionic. (Similar to the existing arcane and divine spell feat tracks)
Soulknife – Feat track. Mindblade.
Wilder – Psion subclass. Undisciplined.
Alchemist – Wizard subclass. Alchemist. (PF APG class names are much more descriptive than core D&D3 class names!)
Cavalier – Feat track. Mounted.
Inquisitor – Feat track. Inquisitor.
Oracle – Feat track. Oracle. (Similar to ‘saint’ but with karmic debt)
Summoner – Archetype. Summoner. (Could make a case for Wizard subclass but I admit some fondness for the very different influence from Final Fantasy, here.)
Witch – Wizard subclass. Witch.
To clarify, I know with virtual certainty that every class in this list (or a facsimile thereof) will be represented in D&D5 by a full-fledged class. That is unfortunately how D&D rolls, these days. I further realize that my definition of archetype and the application of the concept to this list is entirely a matter of opinion. This is just a thought experiment to potentially illustrate how the proposed mechanics for D&D5 could be used to provide greater character customizability without resorting to class glut.
I’m torn about the bard, because I want him to be a ‘jack of all trades’ archetype, but realistically that concept does not introduce any value that a fighter/mage/rogue would not. What I really don’t want to recommend, but I feel obligated to, is that the bard be represented by a feat track granting inspirational music abilities.
I feel strongly that the bard’s music is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself, but this has not been a part of D&D canon since AD&D1. Musical powers are here to stay, and to that end the D&D5 bard should (regrettably) be a musical feat track applicable to any class.
I am interested in your thoughts!
I took a minute and reviewed a list of classes mostly drawn from D&D3 and the Pathfinder APG to see how many true archetypes I felt there were represented in the list. I omitted D&D4 mostly due to sheer volume, although perceived redundancy was also a consideration. I mean no disrespect.
Out of 28 classes I found seven archetrypes (possibly six, possibly eight): Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Druid, Psion, and Summoner. I think seven is a good number, and what’s more I like the ratio: one archetype for every four historical D&D classes sounds about right, drawing from personal experience.
So what’s an archetype? The criterion I’m using is that a class archetype should be defined by WHAT a character does. A character of a specific class ought to do a thing that is reflected in every member of that class and not reflected by any other class. Exactly HOW the character does this thing should be determined by his subclass.
So by this definition (which largely ignores mechanics, I realize), the wizard, the sorcerer, and the warlock are part of the same archetype, which is to say, ‘spellcaster.’ It’s difficult (for me, at least) to find a truly archetypal division between those three classes.
I think the aforementioned eight class archetypes are unique in that they are not derivative of any other class, and their skill sets are sufficiently self-definitive that they cannot generally be applied to another archetype without fundamentally altering that archetype into something else (i.e., a fighter with wizard spells is a wizard and a fighter [and a multiclass character], but a fighter with ranger abilities is ultimately just a survivalist fighter).
I believe every other class in the list could be better devised as either a subclass of an existing archetype or a feat track available to any class. Let me know what you think:
Cleric – Archetype. Healer.
Fighter – Archetype. Combatant.
Rogue – Archetype. Operative.
Wizard – Archetype. Spellcaster.
Barbarian – Fighter subclass. Rager.
Bard –See below.
Druid – Archetype. Shifter.
Monk – Feat track. Qigong. (But a strong case could be made for archetype status, given how no other classes focus on internal magic.)
Ranger – Feat track. Survivalist.
Paladin – Feat track. Saint. (Meaning a divinely inspired individual with innate powers rather than spells)
Sorcerer – Wizard subclass. Non-academic.
Warlock – Wizard subclass. Pacted.
Warlord – Feat track. Tactical.
Ninja – Rogue with the Monk feat track.
Samurai – Fighter subclass. Bushido. (Really just a reskin of a knight [chivalry])
Shugenja – Cleric subclass. Shinto.
Tattooed Monk – Monk subclass. Tattoos.
Wu Jen – Wizard subclass. Tao.
Psion – Archetype. Mentalist. (I’m not a big fan of psionics, personally, but I’ve always felt that if they were going to be around, they could easily be made definitively separate from magic.)
Psychic Warrior – Feat track. Psionic. (Similar to the existing arcane and divine spell feat tracks)
Soulknife – Feat track. Mindblade.
Wilder – Psion subclass. Undisciplined.
Alchemist – Wizard subclass. Alchemist. (PF APG class names are much more descriptive than core D&D3 class names!)
Cavalier – Feat track. Mounted.
Inquisitor – Feat track. Inquisitor.
Oracle – Feat track. Oracle. (Similar to ‘saint’ but with karmic debt)
Summoner – Archetype. Summoner. (Could make a case for Wizard subclass but I admit some fondness for the very different influence from Final Fantasy, here.)
Witch – Wizard subclass. Witch.
To clarify, I know with virtual certainty that every class in this list (or a facsimile thereof) will be represented in D&D5 by a full-fledged class. That is unfortunately how D&D rolls, these days. I further realize that my definition of archetype and the application of the concept to this list is entirely a matter of opinion. This is just a thought experiment to potentially illustrate how the proposed mechanics for D&D5 could be used to provide greater character customizability without resorting to class glut.
I’m torn about the bard, because I want him to be a ‘jack of all trades’ archetype, but realistically that concept does not introduce any value that a fighter/mage/rogue would not. What I really don’t want to recommend, but I feel obligated to, is that the bard be represented by a feat track granting inspirational music abilities.
I feel strongly that the bard’s music is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself, but this has not been a part of D&D canon since AD&D1. Musical powers are here to stay, and to that end the D&D5 bard should (regrettably) be a musical feat track applicable to any class.
I am interested in your thoughts!