D&D (2024) 2024 Class Rankings (from nat1gaming.com) for ppl who believe that stuff.

[ECMO3]

The UA isn't an official part of the rules either. GG.

Not yet .... but it will be. ;-)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

How are you generating disadvantage on saves? That is a genuine question I’m not baiting you.

I know for a fact it can happen; I don't know specific things that do it because I haven't gone looking. Whether it is rare or not was not in question either. The comparison being made was that attack rolls have Advantage, while spellcasting has nothing whatsoever that could equate to that. This is false. Saving throws may have Disadvantage, which is mathematically identical to having Advantage on attack rolls.

 

[Zardnaar]

I know for a fact it can happen; I don't know specific things that do it because I haven't gone looking. Whether it is rare or not was not in question either. The comparison being made was that attack rolls have Advantage, while spellcasting has nothing whatsoever that could equate to that. This is false. Saving throws may have Disadvantage, which is mathematically identical to having Advantage on attack rolls.

Kinda. Sorcerers can do it 2 sorcerer points. Boosting attack rolls 1 sorcerery point.

That's almost it. Advantage on attack roll is drastically more common.

Sorcerers functionally get advantage every roll level 7 iirc.

Numeric boosts to attack rolls also vastly more common. Spell DCs a lot rarer and unreliable.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Kinda. Sorcerers can do it 2 sorcerer points. Boosting attack rolls 1 sorcerery point.

That's almost it. Advantage on attack roll is drastically more common.

Sorcerers functionally get advantage every roll level 7 iirc.

It does not help one's case to make it and then immediately undercut it with "this thing that martial characters would love to have? Yeah a full caster can have that functionally 100% of the time by level 7."

And, as I said, rarity was never part of my argument. I was responding to the claim that martial characters get Advantage, and nothing like it existed for spellcasters because they rely on saving throws:

Even when played intelligently the points I made above still apply. Spells don’t benefit from advantage or inspiration for instance, except for the few attack roll spells which are mainly very low power cantrips.

"Spells don't benefit from advantage" (setting aside attack roll spells, which TheSword recognizes exist, but neglects a significant number thereof). That's a pretty unequivocal "Advantage is a distinct benefit martials get and spellcasters functionally don't." This is only true if one ignores the existence of Disadvantage. Save-altering effects aren't that rare. For example, Diviner's Portent ability, your already noted Sorcerer metamagic, various magical foci. Rare or not, these things do exist, and every spellcaster is incentivized to seek them out.

 

[Zardnaar]

It does not help one's case to make it and then immediately undercut it with "this thing that martial characters would love to have? Yeah a full caster can have that functionally 100% of the time by level 7."

Vex feeds it a lot and champion enables it 100% of the time or close to it.
Lots of conditions also grant it eg prone, blind, invisible, paralyzed.

Sorcerers about the only spellcastee that can come close to martial damage late tier 2 without white room CME at higher level.

 

[Mistwell]

I've been seriously considering a Gnome Barbarian for the following reasons:

Barbarian Saving Throw Proficiencies: Strength, Constitution
While Raging: Advantage on Strength Saving Throws
Level 2 Danger Sense: Advantage on Dexterity Saving Throws
Gnomish Cunning. You have Advantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws.

So that's advantage on every saving throw except Constitution, which you have proficiency in.

Now, how can I get advantage on Constitution saving throws? Anyone know? Class feature, magic item, feat, anything?

 

[Zardnaar]

I've been seriously considering a Gnome Barbarian for the following reasons:

Barbarian Saving Throw Proficiencies: Strength, Constitution
While Raging: Advantage on Strength Saving Throws
Level 2 Danger Sense: Advantage on Dexterity Saving Throws
Gnomish Cunning. You have Advantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws.

So that's advantage on every saving throw except Constitution, which you have proficiency in.

Now, how can I get advantage on Constitution saving throws? Anyone know? Class feature, magic item, feat, anything?

Lol wife's considering a Gnome as well. She picked in in BG3 other day. Gnome phase.

Lucky and musical origin feats grant limited advantage as such on con checks.

Foresight (not viable)

I think 3 of the Barbarians are good for 1-20. Totem being the meh one.

World Trees also impressive over level 10 (seen it in play at 12).

Berzerker hits like a truck at levels that matter.

 

[Clint_L]

I've been seriously considering a Gnome Barbarian for the following reasons:

Barbarian Saving Throw Proficiencies: Strength, Constitution
While Raging: Advantage on Strength Saving Throws
Level 2 Danger Sense: Advantage on Dexterity Saving Throws
Gnomish Cunning. You have Advantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws.

So that's advantage on every saving throw except Constitution, which you have proficiency in.

Now, how can I get advantage on Constitution saving throws? Anyone know? Class feature, magic item, feat, anything?

You could make sure to get the Lucky origin feat, which can be used to give you advantage on any d20 test, including saving throws if needed.

 

[TheSword]

It does not help one's case to make it and then immediately undercut it with "this thing that martial characters would love to have? Yeah a full caster can have that functionally 100% of the time by level 7."

And, as I said, rarity was never part of my argument. I was responding to the claim that martial characters get Advantage, and nothing like it existed for spellcasters because they rely on saving throws:

"Spells don't benefit from advantage" (setting aside attack roll spells, which TheSword recognizes exist, but neglects a significant number thereof). That's a pretty unequivocal "Advantage is a distinct benefit martials get and spellcasters functionally don't." This is only true if one ignores the existence of Disadvantage. Save-altering effects aren't that rare. For example, Diviner's Portent ability, your already noted Sorcerer metamagic, various magical foci. Rare or not, these things do exist, and every spellcaster is incentivized to seek them out.

Rarity and applicability is important when you’re discussing how something affects the game. You said my point that fighters benefit from advantage and inspiration didn’t matter because a caster’s spells can impose disadvantage on the save.

I was genuinely interested how you could do it but having to take several levels of sorcerer and spend 2 sorcery points doesn’t seem to make it readily available. Whereas every fighter, barbarian, or rogue can get advantage on almost all their attacks most turns using their readily available class abilities. I’m thinking you’re making my point for me!