D&D 5E (2024) So, what does the Artificer "replace"?

[Charlaquin]

bounded accuracy is good and all but i don't think the 1/2 level bonus is something to get rid of either, one of the criticisms against 5e i think has merit is that a 20th level character likely still has exactly the same bonuses to their non-primary skills and saves as they did at 1st level, i think experienced adventurers should have enough field knowledge that you can expect the barbarian will of picked up some arcana, the cleric knows how to disarm a basic trap or the sorcerer knows how to swing a club.

I’m a diehard bounded accuracy apologist. 5e got me off the check bonus and DC treadmill, and I’m never getting back on it again if I can help it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Get rid of the +1/2 level to everything in favor of a Bounded Accuracy system like 5e, replace all the miscellaneous 1 and 2 point bonuses and penalties with a clean advantage/disadvantage style mechanic, and make sure each class has an Essentials-style “simple” build option and a 4e Classic-style “complex” build option and you might just have my ideal form of D&D there. Maybe steal PF2’s 3-action economy too while you’re tinkering under the hood anyway.

The only part i disagree with is the last, because i think that 5e's action economy is already too damn restrictive, and having to sacrifice main turn actions in order to be a defender against multiple enemies would be worse, not better.

COmbining BA and Reaction into Quick Action is part of the action economy of my own game, so i dont mind that, but my game also doesnt have dnd style turns, just rounds and phases, so it is a little different.

Perhaps if defenders have the ability to react once per turn without using an action, it could work.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

bounded accuracy is good and all but i don't think the 1/2 level bonus is something to get rid of either, one of the criticisms against 5e i think has merit is that a 20th level character likely still has exactly the same bonuses to their non-primary skills and saves as they did at 1st level, i think experienced adventurers should have enough field knowledge that you can expect the barbarian will of picked up some arcana, the cleric knows how to disarm a basic trap or the sorcerer knows how to swing a club.

I Have the opposite assumption, but i do think that once per tier every charcter should get a skill proficiency and some kind of benefit with saves eventually. I do think that it is good that some saves cannot be made without an external bonus, but maybe every PC could have a Heroic Determination Die and get 1 more at 5, 11, 14, and 17. It is a d6, and you can add it to an d20 test after seeing the result.

Or even maybe at those levels you gain a use of the ability to turn a failed save into a success and regain the uses when you level up.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I’m a diehard bounded accuracy apologist. 5e got me off the check bonus and DC treadmill, and I’m never getting back on it again if I can help it.

i'm not talking about treadmill, i'm talking about characters becoming at least moderately competent in the areas outside of their field of expertise, the ceiling isn't raising for anyone but their floors are.

5e doesn't provide enough ASI for people to waste bumping their non-core stats, this is just something to account for that.

 

[Parmandur]

i'm not talking about treadmill, i'm talking about characters becoming at least moderately competent in the areas outside of their field of expertise, the ceiling isn't raising for anyone but their floors are.

5e doesn't provide enough ASI for people to waste bumping their non-core stats, this is just something to account for that.

Why would a character be competent outside of their are of competence...?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Why would a character be competent outside of their area of competence...?

because after adventuring for a bit you'll just end up picking up some things, it'd probably be statistically impossible NOT to, from watching and listening to your fellow party members, from chats with shopkeepers and bartenders, from practical experience, i'm sure you have an amount of bits of stray knowledge rattling around in your head that aren't related to whatever you do for a living that you never went out of your way to specifically pick up, just things you've learned because one day you read it in a book or a family member needed your help as a second pair of hands.

i'm not saying they should be as competent in these areas as their own area of expertise (i noticed you changed that bit of phrasing), i'm saying that after a few adventures they shouldn't be as incompetent in these areas as the day they started.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

because after adventuring for a bit you'll just end up picking up some things, it'd probably be statistically impossible NOT to, from watching and listening to your fellow party members, from chats with shopkeepers and bartenders, from practical experience, i'm sure you have an amount of bits of stray knowledge rattling around in your head that aren't related to whatever you do for a living that you never went out of your way to specifically pick up, just things you've learned because one day you read it in a book or a family member needed your help as a second pair of hands.

i'm not saying they should be as competent in these areas as their own area of expertise (i noticed you changed that bit of phrasing), i'm saying that after a few adventures they shouldn't be as incompetent in these areas as the day they started.

This is a good argument for a 3 tier skill proficiency system, IMO. There would still be some things you would suck at, imo, even as you reach epic tier.

But, if you can upgrade X skills by 1 grade at level 11 and 14 and 17, you would gain some incidental competencies.

 

[CreamCloud0]

This is a good argument for a 3 tier skill proficiency system, IMO. There would still be some things you would suck at, imo, even as you reach epic tier.

But, if you can upgrade X skills by 1 grade at level 11 and 14 and 17, you would gain some incidental competencies.

personally i prefer the half-level/proficiency method as it's more of a gradual increase rather than the bump happening all at once once you reach a threshold.