D&D 5E (2024) The 4 Classes I Would Not Play 1-20 In 5.5

[ECMO3]

Guidance is handy but it just adds 1d4 to a check. Not sure what it replaces a rogues jack of all trades thing.

Jack of all trades is a Bard thing, but at low levels Guidance is 2.5 on average and proficiency is only 2.

I do think it is a bit overblown as guidance has been nerfed to only work with one skill to be named ahead of time and it still requires concentration.

 

[ECMO3]

New fighters ability can sub for rogue if its clutch.

Fighters are substantially better than Rogues at most skill checks from level 2 to level 6.

 

[Zardnaar]

Fighters are substantially better than Rogues at most skill checks from level 2 to level 6.

As long as they don't run out of second wind

 

[AlViking]

Jack of all trades is a Bard thing, but at low levels Guidance is 2.5 on average and proficiency is only 2.

I do think it is a bit overblown as guidance has been nerfed to only work with one skill to be named ahead of time and it still requires concentration.

I wasn't talking about the literal jack of all trades, rogues get more skill proficiencies than any other class along with expertise. Reliable talent I would argue is better than jack of all trades although of course it doesn't kick in until 7th level. But we're talking about 1-20 here not low levels.

In 2024 guidance can be added to any skill check taken within the next minute so it's more flexible than the 2014 version. I still don't see it replacing proficiency, expertise and reliable talent.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

rogues get more skill proficiencies than any other class

If there are six PC they can cover all the important proficiencies even if they only have four each.

Rogue extra proficiencies are only useful in a small party.

 

[AlViking]

If there are six PC they can cover all the important proficiencies even if they only have four each.

Rogue extra proficiencies are only useful in a small party.

Expertise and reliable talent can make a huge difference. I don't think any individual class is required for a group, you can almost always compensate for another class. But if you are doing things to compensate for a missing piece that means that you've compromised the niche of your chosen class. That's not a bug in the system, it's a feature but it is still a compromise.

 

[Zardnaar]

I wasn't talking about the literal jack of all trades, rogues get more skill proficiencies than any other class along with expertise. Reliable talent I would argue is better than jack of all trades although of course it doesn't kick in until 7th level. But we're talking about 1-20 here not low levels.

In 2024 guidance can be added to any skill check taken within the next minute so it's more flexible than the 2014 version. I still don't see it replacing proficiency, expertise and reliable talent.

Most of the time the DCs are low enough the rogues extras don't matter to much. Espicially with rerolls, advantage etc.
And you don't get rewarded for it much.

There's a DC 30 skill check in BG3 that can get you a legendary weapon level 5-7.

In real games DMs don't tend to put those types of skill checks in them. They're usually DC 10-20 in printed material.

So guidance is better than most of the rogue stuff until level 7ish. Fighters get that new thing I keep forgetting the name of. Guidance spell and bards exist

Rogues are easiest class to replace andctheor damage is mediocre based on 3.0 rogue with 5E hp (3.0 critters had vastly lower hit points).

If you doubled or tripled a rogues steal attack damage you're back at 3.0 Rogue danage.

Best as skills is kinda niche, campaign and DM dependent and easy replaced or spread out across the party.

And changes to 5.5 if proficient and have the tool.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Since you are creating content without assuming a rogue will be in the party, you aren’t going to put high DC skill checks on a critical path. Maybe you miss some loot or can’t avoid the odd fight, but overall, it doesn’t matter because it can’t matter.

NB, I’ve never liked thieves/rogues in any edition of the game. They are the one class I would never play.