D&D 5E (2024) The 4 Classes I Would Not Play 1-20 In 5.5

[Seramus]

As a comical and arbitrary metric, I like to ask myself "Can this class get to a Floating Castle?"

Now, that doesn't mean I must take the option that can get me to a Floating Castle, but does the class have some way to overcome this problem? Some combination of spell or class ability? Maybe a flying mount at higher levels? Yes, using a Floating Castle as criteria is silly, but it's sometimes surprising who can get up there!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

As a comical and arbitrary metric, I like to ask myself "Can this class get to a Floating Castle?"

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Now, that doesn't mean I must take the option that can get me to a Floating Castle, but does the class have some way to overcome this problem? Some combination of spell or class ability? Maybe a flying mount at higher levels? Yes, using a Floating Castle as criteria is silly, but it's sometimes surprising who can get up there!

I have a similar metric! But for me, the question is - "Can this class crash the Floating Castle so that I don't have to fly up to it?"

Some people just want to see the world burn. Not Snarf! I am happy just crashing Floating Castles on band camps unsuspecting bards.

 

[AlViking]

I think very few people actually sit down and do the theory-crafting white-room analysis to say that "These classes are best". I know I don't. I look at what I'm going to have fun playing and go for it.

My arcane trickster rogue was my first serious character for 5e (we had done some one-shots and short term games to learn the rules). He was a lot of fun, able to avoid being hit by increasing his AC with the shield spell while also being pretty good at things like suggesting that the guard really, really had to use the latrine right freakin' now. Was he the most powerful character ever? I never really cared.

Yeah, my world tree barbarian doesn't really get any cool new abilities after 14th level with the 2024 rules, but you know what? I'll still be playing Grognar the Barbarian using my abilities to manipulate the battlefield teleporting like the madman that I am, once per rage bringing people with me as I teleport 150 feet. He may be a one hit wonder but if you're a barbarian? One hit is frequently all you need.

I also find much of the theory crafting doesn't really hold up, so much depends on the style of play, the group, the DM.

 

[jayoungr]

3. Rogue. Good at skills. New fighters and Bards hell even start clerics/druids/warlocks step on the rogues toes to much. Espicially at lower levels.

Surely this is dependent on party composition. Other classes can step on the rogue's toes depending on the build, but it's not inevitable. If your party doesn't have those other classes, or if they choose builds that don't overlap with the rogue, then the rogue has a perfectly decent niche.

 

[AlViking]

Surely this is dependent on party composition. Other classes can step on the rogue's toes depending on the build, but it's not inevitable. If your party doesn't have those other classes, or if they choose builds that don't overlap with the rogue, then the rogue has a perfectly decent niche.

In addition, the reason they can step on the rogue's toes generally only comes into play if there is no rogue. If there is one, it frees up those other classes to do other things with their spells. I'm also not convinced that there are that many spells that make a rogue obsolete in actual play.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Well its an improvement over 2014. There's only 4 classes i wouldn't play 1-20.

Theses clases are.

1. Barbarian
The Barbarian has been a bit of a one trick pony since 3.0. It has been buffed in 5.5. However its still focused on melee and it has weak defenses eg wisdom saves. At higher levels there's just to many saves targeting them with DCs 17-25. Berzerker and Zealot are a bit better but still. Fighters/Monks/Paladins are more appealing.

2. Ranger.
We all know the various issues with Ranger. I just don't see to much point in staying single classed after level 5. They're quite good tier 1. There's a couple of very narrow builds that are a maybe. And they fall off level 10 or 11.

3. Rogue. Good at skills. New fighters and Bards hell even start clerics/druids/warlocks step on the rogues toes to much. Espicially at lower levels. Haven't been seeing to many rogues rolled up even in 5.0 last one was around Covid. They're the Gnomes of 5E.

4. Wizard. This one's mostly due to buffs to Warlocks and Sorcerers. Plus competition from every other primary spellcaster. Level 10× they're great but that's to long to wait. Warlock has it other way around front loaded falls off level 12+. Getting extra spells is also campaign and DM dependent. Otherwise Sorcerer knows more spells now. Saving throws are another issue. Intelligence saves are so rare you might not even use one. Wisdom is a tertiary stat a best for wizards. In effect you have no great saves.

This is a very interesting perspective. I don't know if I fully agree, but thank you for sharing it.

Interesting that Monks aren't on the list! Would you say they're sufficiently improved in 2024/5.5 or would you never have had an issue with them?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

In addition, the reason they can step on the rogue's toes generally only comes into play if there is no rogue. If there is one, it frees up those other classes to do other things with their spells.

I don't think that's actually true in my experience. I mean, we all have our own experiences, right, but in D&D, there's a key and vital difference between Rogue skill checks and spells, and that's that spells always succeed.

So when the chips are down, and you really need to succeed, you use a spell. You don't rely on a roll. If you're just chancing it, fine, but it's unlikely a spell would have been expended on that anyway. Spells also frequently enable vastly simplified plans. A Rogue-based plan might have a half-dozen steps, all theoretically requiring separate checks (which with D&D's binary-pass-fail and zero ability to mitigate failed checks, is a lot of risk), whereas a magic-based plan may well require zero checks or far fewer. Some of this is DM-dependent too - if you have the kind of DM who doesn't go in for kinda-unnecessary or repeated checks, any kind of Skill check-based approach is vastly more likely to succeed than otherwise, but my experience is a lot of DMs will demand a Skill check for literally every possible point of failure (or close to it), which makes some kind of serious problem very likely in a binary pass/fail-based system.

(The solution is pretty simple - make it so spells can fail and so the effects they provide are flawless, but 5E hasn't done that. I imagine 6E may well though.)

Rogues (and no other classes, except I think one Bard subclass maybe) can mitigate this issue a bit with Reliable Talent, and it helps them that it's been lowered from 11th in 2014 to 7th in 2024, but I feel like they probably need to lower it even further, at least for say the skills the Rogue has Expertise in.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I don't think that's actually true in my experience. I mean, we all have our own experiences, right, but in D&D, there's a key and vital difference between Rogue skill checks and spells, and that's that spells always succeed.

So when the chips are down, and you really need to succeed, you use a spell. You don't rely on a roll. If you're just chancing it, fine, but it's unlikely a spell would have been expended on that anyway. Spells also frequently enable vastly simplified plans. A Rogue-based plan might have a half-dozen steps, all theoretically requiring separate checks (which with D&D's binary-pass-fail and zero ability to mitigate failed checks, is a lot of risk), whereas a magic-based plan may well require zero checks or far fewer. Some of this is DM-dependent too - if you have the kind of DM who doesn't go in for kinda-unnecessary or repeated checks, any kind of Skill check-based approach is vastly more likely to succeed than otherwise, but my experience is a lot of DMs will demand a Skill check for literally every possible point of failure (or close to it), which makes some kind of serious problem very likely in a binary pass/fail-based system.

(The solution is pretty simple - make it so spells can fail and so the effects they provide are flawless, but 5E hasn't done that. I imagine 6E may well though.)

Rogues (and no other classes, except I think one Bard subclass maybe) can mitigate this issue a bit with Reliable Talent, and it helps them that it's been lowered from 11th in 2014 to 7th in 2024, but I feel like they probably need to lower it even further, at least for say the skills the Rogue has Expertise in.

rogues, as i recall how some youtuber or other put it, for all their bonuses with expertise, still have to 'play by the rules' when it comes to problem solving, and spellcasters don't.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Wizard being on this list is certainly ... a take.

Wizard is still the best full caster in 2024, and it still isn't close. Rituals you can cast directly out of your spellbook without preparing the spell and being able to switch out your spells every day will always be king.

 

[AlViking]

I don't think that's actually true in my experience. I mean, we all have our own experiences, right, but in D&D, there's a key and vital difference between Rogue skill checks and spells, and that's that spells always succeed.

So when the chips are down, and you really need to succeed, you use a spell. You don't rely on a roll. If you're just chancing it, fine, but it's unlikely a spell would have been expended on that anyway. Spells also frequently enable vastly simplified plans. A Rogue-based plan might have a half-dozen steps, all theoretically requiring separate checks (which with D&D's binary-pass-fail and zero ability to mitigate failed checks, is a lot of risk), whereas a magic-based plan may well require zero checks or far fewer. Some of this is DM-dependent too - if you have the kind of DM who doesn't go in for kinda-unnecessary or repeated checks, any kind of Skill check-based approach is vastly more likely to succeed than otherwise, but my experience is a lot of DMs will demand a Skill check for literally every possible point of failure (or close to it), which makes some kind of serious problem very likely in a binary pass/fail-based system.

(The solution is pretty simple - make it so spells can fail and so the effects they provide are flawless, but 5E hasn't done that. I imagine 6E may well though.)

Rogues (and no other classes, except I think one Bard subclass maybe) can mitigate this issue a bit with Reliable Talent, and it helps them that it's been lowered from 11th in 2014 to 7th in 2024, but I feel like they probably need to lower it even further, at least for say the skills the Rogue has Expertise in.

That hasn't been my experience, can you give examples? There are some things magic can do (and if you want a magic using rogue the arcane trickster is an option), but that means that the caster is not preparing and casting other spells.