D&D 5E (2024) Class Tier List 1 Year Later.

[Zardnaar]

I'm not really sure why the campaign being exploration based matters to the discussion if you're not having any wizard PCs in it. If no one felt like playing a wizard, does it matter? How's the rolls lookin' like? Do you have no Intelligence checks?

I do but theyre DC 10. Lvl 1. Guidance spell and one px with it has 12 intelligence.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Seems like a fair breakdown.

I've made high-tier barbarians... but I do think the new monster manual takes them down a notch even in combat though their subclasses really are well-defined.

 

[Zardnaar]

Seems like a fair breakdown.

I've made high-tier barbarians... but I do think the new monster manual takes them down a notch even in combat though their subclasses really are well-defined.

Alot of force and radiant damage going around.

I had a barbarian player he seemed proud of what he was doing. One question.

" what's your wisdom save like".

A lot of hear and spellcasters gave hold person a lot. Hence why I rate fighters, Paladins and Monks higher at higher levels.

Most efficient way to defeat the 5.5 monsters is high dance backed up with control. You dont want to race the monster danage. They hurt.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Alot of force and radiant damage going around.

I had a barbarian player he seemed proud of what he was doing. One question.

" what's your wisdom save like".

A lot of hear and spellcasters gave hold person a lot. Hence why I rate fighters, Paladins and Monks higher at higher levels.

Most efficient way to defeat the 5.5 monsters is high dance backed up with control. You dont want to race the monster danage. They hurt.

Haha, agreed. I almost TPK'd my party right away, not realizing the new monsters were applying massive thunder and poison riders on attack... which does have an uneven effect when some of these monsters land a crit.. big time.

The way my party has been winning-out kindof spits in the face of convention.. IMO, it hasn't been all about dmg for the win... instead it has been action economy wars.

 

[Blue]

“Hightened” spell is interesting, because even though it’s the optimal choice, players tend not to choose it, or put it off to high level, because it’s boring. Quicken is by far the most popular, since it lets the character do more on their turn, followed by moor damage, because blowing stuff up is fun. And optimising a character is pointless. You will win easily in any case, so there is nothing to be gained by making it even easier.

If, as you say, victory isn't the objective since it's going to happen, then what is a player's objective in combat?

It's to feel useful, have fun, and do awesome enough stuff that you have the spotlight of everyone thinking your character is cool.

Given that criteria, then optimization isn't pointless. It's to achieve those goals.

Really, any ranking system should be based on “most fun” rather than “most power in a combat situation”.

Exactly. But if you are in combat, doing something worthy of admiration is a goal.

 

[Zardnaar]

Haha, agreed. I almost TPK'd my party right away, not realizing the new monsters were applying massive thunder and poison riders on attack... which does have an uneven effect when some of these monsters land a crit.. big time.

The way my party has been winning-out kindof spits in the face of convention.. IMO, it hasn't been all about dmg for the win... instead it has been action economy wars.

Youre using control on the monsters as well?

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Youre using control on the monsters as well?

Good question, the way I responded makes it seem that way, which is counter to the point of control and strategy making up for the massive dmg riders in the MM (crits being devastating with those).

Answer is complicated, I have had quite a few creatures use the "cunning action", which can flip combat upside down. Sometimes I will use control on my monsters... typically, if I do so, the ability is environment-dependent, so Bonus action investigate quick thinking players can remove a monster's control ability