Classed based defense bonuses for D&D classes

[Kobold Avenger]

I haven't settled on the exact ranges (but it'll probably be the same as D20 Modern's) of class defense bonuses for D&D classes, but there'll be 3 different types simply called poor, medium and good in this thread. Note that poor, medium and good are slightly different in prestige classes than they are with core classes.

Note that I do intend to have armor add to the overall defense bonus. Though armor in my campaign isn't as effective, and sometimes even at a disadvantage.

Anyways the core classes in my campaign are getting the following so far, for class defense bonuses.

Barbarian: Medium
Bard: Good
Cleric: Medium
Druid: Medium
Fighter: Medium
Martial Artist (Monk): Good
Paladin: Medium
Psion: Poor
Psychic Warrior: Medium
Ranger: Medium
Rogue: Good
Shaman: Medium
Sorcerer: Poor
Templar (Sohei): Medium
Wizard: Poor

I would like to see any comments or suggestions on the class defense bonus for them. It's more about thinking the balance between the classes, and which type of defense bonus you think they should deserve. Note that for the PHB classes, I intend to be using the revised versions with these, the four classes from the Psionics Handbook and Oriental Adventures out of these I don't see as being much different.

 

[Ace]

This isn't too bad but I would do the bonuses like this

Barbarian: Good
Bard: Medium
Cleric: Medium
Druid: Medium
Fighter: Good
Martial Artist (Monk): Good
Paladin: Good
Psion: Poor
Psychic Warrior: Good
Ranger: Good
Rogue: Good
Shaman: Medium
Sorcerer: Poor
Templar (Sohei): Good
Wizard: Poor


JMO but fighters ouught to be VERY goos in combat.

The current system (as seen in wheel of time) is set up to give everyone a roughly equal AC --

I find this ok from a balance POV but it is sort of illogical

Well suffice it to say I prefer a diffferent method

Also since you are doing armor stacking watch out for magic items---

If you give the usual alotment of defense items the characters will have to high an AC for game balance

 

[Kobold Avenger]

My observation of all the classes (core & advanced) in D20 Modern is that only one of the classes (the martial artist advanced class) with a good defense rating gets a good BAB. So when determining the balance of core classes at least I determined that classes with good BAB shouldn't get good defense ratings.

I'm limiting magic items which give out AC bonuses by increasing their costs and lowering the normal/epic limit of modifiers. All other magic items still have the same costs.

 

[Kemrain]

The Grim and Gritty system does it as such:

If good BAB, Good Defense
If Average Bab, Average Defense
If Poor BAB, Poor Defense
If Good Reflex Save, Good Defense
If Average Reflex Save, Average Defesne
If Poor Reflex Save, Poor Defense
Spellcasting ability lowers the Defense 1 grade.
Take the best bonus, don't try to average.
Average Reflex saves aren't in D&D, but they are in many other d20 systems.
The bonuses are Equal to the Good, Average and Poor progressions of Saving Throws, and if you Multiclass, you just add them together.
Good: 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 11, 11, 12
Average: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9
Poor: 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

- Kemrian the Grim and Gritty Ad Campaign

 

[Snoweel]

There was some d00d who helped me out with this a few months ago (don't remember his User Name) but he had some good ideas.

Basically, those who begin with Heavy Armour Proficiency get Poor defence bonus progression.

Those who begin with Medium Armour Proficiency get Average defence bonus progression.

Those who begin with Light Armour Proficiency get Good defence bonus progression.

Those who begin with no armour proficiency get Poor defence bonus progression. An exception is monks, who get Good defence bonus progression.

Fighters are a special case (Rangers and Barbarians too, I guess) - they may choose the level of Armour Proficiency they begin with and the accompanying defence bonus progression.

Spending feats on Armour Proficiency doesn't reduce defence bonus progression.

And your combined defensive bonus + dexterity bonus is restricted to the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by armour.

Naturally, this means that characters of a high enough level are actually better off without armour.

Hope this helps.

 

[Angcuru]

OOH! I like! *SNATCH!*

Tho, how would this work when entering them epic levels? Just like BAB and Saves, this should IMO stem off into a steady, slow, universal progression.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

My idea is that they gain +1 defense every 3 levels starting at level 21. So it would go that at levels 21, 24, 27, and 30 their defense bonus will increase.

 

[2late]

A very simple solution: Add the base-reflex-save to Ac.

 

[Kemrain]

Base Reflex save to AC... It could work, but it's very abusable. If, for instance, I took 2 Levels of Rogue, Bard and (Monte Cook) Ranger, I'd have a Base Reflex save of +9.

Hmm, those Toughness feats in Sword and Fist.. You can take those a lot earlier if you take 2 levels or Fighter, Ranger, Cleric, Barbarian, Paladin... Hell Monk would help both.. Hmm. It's the same thing, really.

Could still work, though.

- Kemrain the Proponent of Multiclassing

 

[Angcuru]

A very simple solution: Add the base-reflex-save to Ac.

That might work. We've been using a similar system in Blackshirt5's game, except we use 1/2 the base reflex save.

But then again, the base ref to save wouldn't work out too well as a def bonus, considering that fighters would indeed have the largest def bonus, but have relatively low base reflex saves.