victorysaber
First Post
I am of the opinion that base classes should have specialised feats to round them out and give them the special abilities they so desire. As much as I am a fan of Szatany's Ultimate Classes, I think that they cram too many options into each class. If you want to have so many options per class... then create another class, for goodness sakes. Don't cram 10, 000 options into one class.
Why do I say that? Because when you cram too many options into one class, it becomes difficult to gauge the "average" power and expectations of that class. A class defines your role and gives an expectation of your abilities. Yes, it may stereotype your powers partially, but that stereotyping is good. When I say a "bard", I expect high Perform, combat boosting Bardic Music, some spells and decent weapon proficiencies. There must be a core suite of abilities that any given class is expected to perform, and customisation comes after that. If you don't like the core suite, then take another class, or design your own class and call it another name. But don't add things like "alternate class features". Make it ANOTHER class.
For example, I say bard. You think, like I say, high Perform skill, good Charisma score, high Cha-based skills, enhancing Bardic Music effects, spells from Telepathy/Enchantment/Illusion schools, decent weapon/armour proficiency. But if I use bards like the Ultimate Bard, I don't know what to expect. Game designers don't know what baseline to expect. Even if you tell them "I'm a bard", they'll think "what abilities does he have?"
I love such Szatany's Ultimate Classes, as I've said before. So many options, so many ways to customise your abilities, so many things to choose from! But too much choice means that having the word "class" is irrelevant. We might as well have a point buy system for abilities and proceed on from there.
I guess that means we should move away from thinking of classes as "archetypes", but more as "packages of abilities". Because that's what they are, it's a convenient shorthand for saying "character X has sneak attack and good skills", so we are able to tailor an encounter that makes use of and suits those abilities.
Yes, at the end of the day, it's about being able to use your abilities that count, isn't it? That's why it's so important to know **what** abilities you have. If I don't know what abilities you have, I have no idea how to create situations to let you use those abilities. And then you get bored, and the whole game collapses.
Thus, classes must by definition be restricted and narrow. If you want to have alternate class abilities, or a different suite of abilities altogether, take a different class. Create a different class. But don't use back the old class' name and use different abilities, because it disrupts the whole shorthand notation of it all.
On to part two of the argument.
But how about those people who want to modify their classes a little bit? Like change one ability, or one feature? Surely it isn't justified to overhaul it and create another class altogether just to accommodate that one change in ability, right?
Enter: feats.
Feats were, if I remember the original intention, meant to allow your characters to do something special that few could. And what better way to customise classes than with feats?
When I say feats, I mean class ability specific feats, like Bardic Music feats, or Rage feats, or Wild feats. They allow you to make different or special uses of your core class ability. And it is most often the core class ability that people want to tweak or modify.
I say, make all alternate class features into feats. Make all those substitution levels into feats. Make them class specific feats. Bollocks to "Bardic Music feats", call them "Bard feats" already. Only bards can take them, anyway. Ditto for Ambush or Mind Blade feats. If I didn't have levels in Rogue I wouldn't take Ambush feats, anyway.
Feats are a great way to customise the character without eliminating the core class ability that the class is presumed to have. In other words, keep your original powers and customise it with feats. It's the way to go, really. You get your customisation, I retain my expectations of your powers and abilities, give you ways to test them, and you still have a unique and customised class.
Of course, this probably necessitates that characters get more feats per level. But then, is it really necessary to have so many feats per level? Perhaps if you weren't so focused on total optimisation (every melee-er must have Power Attack) and more interested in customisation, then it wouldn't be a problem. It's all about choices, and if you have more feats, you make less choices, making everyone more generic (since there is less choice and more people would have the same feats).
Then there would be those who scream at me: "But I don't want abilities I don't use!" Okay then. Take away a fighter's literacy, he doesn't use that much often. Take away all weapon proficiencies he has that he never uses. Take away all the skills he does not invest skill points in. Oh heck, take away his skill points, he doesn't really use skills anyway. If you want to replace every single thing you do not use, then go create your own custom class where you use every single ability that it gives you, where you can make use of every single option that's available to you. I challenge you to do that first.
Now, on to a role call of these "class specific" feats I am targetting. They are divided into two categories - Primary and Secondary.
PRIMARY CLASS SPECIFIC FEATS
Rage feats - for the Barbarians. Gives additional powers when you rage.
Bardic Music feats - for the Bards. Alters bard songs or gives new ones.
Ambush feats - for the Rogues. Modifies the sneak attack so it does other things.
Mind Blade feats - for the Soulknife. Alters the property of your mind blade.
Wild feats - for the Druids. Do other stuff with your wild shape uses.
SECONDARY CLASS SPECIFIC FEATS
Divine feats - for the Paladins & Clerics. Use your turn undead uses for other things.
Metamagic feats - primarily for Wizards & Sorcerers. Alter your spells.
Metapsionic feats - primarily for Psions & Wilders. Alter your psionic powers.
Psionic feats - primarily for the Psychic Warror. Do cool stuff.
Item Creation feats - for the casters. Make magic items.
Psionic Item Creation feats - for the manifesters. Make psionic items.
Reserve feats - for the casters. Get cool stuff when you don't cast spells.
Now, what I'm really looking for are more Primary Class Specific Feats, rather than Secondary ones. Secondary ones, well, they aren't that special if more than one class can do it. It's true that each class then gets more than once choice of class specific feat to customise themselves, but then it's prone to genericide.
What do I propose? The following, for the classes with no Primary Class Specific Feats.
Combat feats: For the fighters. There already are such feats, in the forms of Weapon Specialisation, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialisation. Perhaps we should let Tactical feats be only fighter-specific?
Martial Arts feats: For the monks. Allow them to use their Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm, Abudant Step, and so on abilities in different ways. Modify their ki strike to have different properties. The possibilites are endless, the monks have so many abilities you can alter.
Smite feats: For the paladins. Let them use their smite for other things, that's their primary class feature.
Domain feats: For the clerics. Allow them to channel or use their domain powers and spells differently.
Enemy Combat feats: For the rangers. Let them gain other powers or bonuses against their favoured enemy.
Psychic Talent feats: For the wilders. They gain other powers when surging euphoria activates
I don't really know what to do with Wizards and Sorcerers, because their core class ability is duplicated by other classes (prepared and spontaneous casting). Perhaps go the Fighter route, and just impose Wizard/Sorcerer levels to take the feats specific to them? Ditto for the Psychic Warrior and Psion.
What do you think?
Why do I say that? Because when you cram too many options into one class, it becomes difficult to gauge the "average" power and expectations of that class. A class defines your role and gives an expectation of your abilities. Yes, it may stereotype your powers partially, but that stereotyping is good. When I say a "bard", I expect high Perform, combat boosting Bardic Music, some spells and decent weapon proficiencies. There must be a core suite of abilities that any given class is expected to perform, and customisation comes after that. If you don't like the core suite, then take another class, or design your own class and call it another name. But don't add things like "alternate class features". Make it ANOTHER class.
For example, I say bard. You think, like I say, high Perform skill, good Charisma score, high Cha-based skills, enhancing Bardic Music effects, spells from Telepathy/Enchantment/Illusion schools, decent weapon/armour proficiency. But if I use bards like the Ultimate Bard, I don't know what to expect. Game designers don't know what baseline to expect. Even if you tell them "I'm a bard", they'll think "what abilities does he have?"
I love such Szatany's Ultimate Classes, as I've said before. So many options, so many ways to customise your abilities, so many things to choose from! But too much choice means that having the word "class" is irrelevant. We might as well have a point buy system for abilities and proceed on from there.
I guess that means we should move away from thinking of classes as "archetypes", but more as "packages of abilities". Because that's what they are, it's a convenient shorthand for saying "character X has sneak attack and good skills", so we are able to tailor an encounter that makes use of and suits those abilities.
Yes, at the end of the day, it's about being able to use your abilities that count, isn't it? That's why it's so important to know **what** abilities you have. If I don't know what abilities you have, I have no idea how to create situations to let you use those abilities. And then you get bored, and the whole game collapses.
Thus, classes must by definition be restricted and narrow. If you want to have alternate class abilities, or a different suite of abilities altogether, take a different class. Create a different class. But don't use back the old class' name and use different abilities, because it disrupts the whole shorthand notation of it all.
On to part two of the argument.
But how about those people who want to modify their classes a little bit? Like change one ability, or one feature? Surely it isn't justified to overhaul it and create another class altogether just to accommodate that one change in ability, right?
Enter: feats.
Feats were, if I remember the original intention, meant to allow your characters to do something special that few could. And what better way to customise classes than with feats?
When I say feats, I mean class ability specific feats, like Bardic Music feats, or Rage feats, or Wild feats. They allow you to make different or special uses of your core class ability. And it is most often the core class ability that people want to tweak or modify.
I say, make all alternate class features into feats. Make all those substitution levels into feats. Make them class specific feats. Bollocks to "Bardic Music feats", call them "Bard feats" already. Only bards can take them, anyway. Ditto for Ambush or Mind Blade feats. If I didn't have levels in Rogue I wouldn't take Ambush feats, anyway.
Feats are a great way to customise the character without eliminating the core class ability that the class is presumed to have. In other words, keep your original powers and customise it with feats. It's the way to go, really. You get your customisation, I retain my expectations of your powers and abilities, give you ways to test them, and you still have a unique and customised class.
Of course, this probably necessitates that characters get more feats per level. But then, is it really necessary to have so many feats per level? Perhaps if you weren't so focused on total optimisation (every melee-er must have Power Attack) and more interested in customisation, then it wouldn't be a problem. It's all about choices, and if you have more feats, you make less choices, making everyone more generic (since there is less choice and more people would have the same feats).
Then there would be those who scream at me: "But I don't want abilities I don't use!" Okay then. Take away a fighter's literacy, he doesn't use that much often. Take away all weapon proficiencies he has that he never uses. Take away all the skills he does not invest skill points in. Oh heck, take away his skill points, he doesn't really use skills anyway. If you want to replace every single thing you do not use, then go create your own custom class where you use every single ability that it gives you, where you can make use of every single option that's available to you. I challenge you to do that first.
Now, on to a role call of these "class specific" feats I am targetting. They are divided into two categories - Primary and Secondary.
PRIMARY CLASS SPECIFIC FEATS
Rage feats - for the Barbarians. Gives additional powers when you rage.
Bardic Music feats - for the Bards. Alters bard songs or gives new ones.
Ambush feats - for the Rogues. Modifies the sneak attack so it does other things.
Mind Blade feats - for the Soulknife. Alters the property of your mind blade.
Wild feats - for the Druids. Do other stuff with your wild shape uses.
SECONDARY CLASS SPECIFIC FEATS
Divine feats - for the Paladins & Clerics. Use your turn undead uses for other things.
Metamagic feats - primarily for Wizards & Sorcerers. Alter your spells.
Metapsionic feats - primarily for Psions & Wilders. Alter your psionic powers.
Psionic feats - primarily for the Psychic Warror. Do cool stuff.
Item Creation feats - for the casters. Make magic items.
Psionic Item Creation feats - for the manifesters. Make psionic items.
Reserve feats - for the casters. Get cool stuff when you don't cast spells.
Now, what I'm really looking for are more Primary Class Specific Feats, rather than Secondary ones. Secondary ones, well, they aren't that special if more than one class can do it. It's true that each class then gets more than once choice of class specific feat to customise themselves, but then it's prone to genericide.
What do I propose? The following, for the classes with no Primary Class Specific Feats.
Combat feats: For the fighters. There already are such feats, in the forms of Weapon Specialisation, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialisation. Perhaps we should let Tactical feats be only fighter-specific?
Martial Arts feats: For the monks. Allow them to use their Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm, Abudant Step, and so on abilities in different ways. Modify their ki strike to have different properties. The possibilites are endless, the monks have so many abilities you can alter.
Smite feats: For the paladins. Let them use their smite for other things, that's their primary class feature.
Domain feats: For the clerics. Allow them to channel or use their domain powers and spells differently.
Enemy Combat feats: For the rangers. Let them gain other powers or bonuses against their favoured enemy.
Psychic Talent feats: For the wilders. They gain other powers when surging euphoria activates
I don't really know what to do with Wizards and Sorcerers, because their core class ability is duplicated by other classes (prepared and spontaneous casting). Perhaps go the Fighter route, and just impose Wizard/Sorcerer levels to take the feats specific to them? Ditto for the Psychic Warrior and Psion.
What do you think?
