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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8055983" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I don't want to tell you you are wrong, because this is your opinion, but you seem to be making a classic mistake of thinking of the Cleric as a healer <u>only</u>. </p><p></p><p>Clerics can also be phenomenal tanks, damage dealers and buffers. My favorite combo (and most basic) is Spirit Guardians for a 15ft aura of 3d8 damage to all enemies, Spiritual weapon as a bonus action for 1d8+4, and Toll of the Dead for 2d12 on a wisdom save. That is an average of 35 damage on a single target, and with a decent AC the cleric can lurk on the front-lines dishing it out. </p><p></p><p></p><p>If you think clerics suck because other people can heal, I'd suggest trying to build a cleric (war/tempest/light or grave) that does not do healing, and see if that changes your opinion. Grave is especially good because they have Spare the Dying as a ranged bonus action, meaning that they can pretty easily stop death, even if they take no healing spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't disagree, but I will note that we generally don't play the game the designers seem to expect us to. Tehy put a lot of value on things like natural weapons, that none of us utilize, and designed the game assuming no feats, which most of us use. So, there is some give and take with the idea that classes might be well balanced, but in the style of game you are running.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>160 temp hp and 44 damage a round is ridiculously good. Even if it lowers your damage, you've essentially made the front-liners immune to damage for a few turns. </p><p></p><p>I'm not saying it is the perfect strategy at all times, but it is a dang good one in general.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8055983, member: 6801228"] I don't want to tell you you are wrong, because this is your opinion, but you seem to be making a classic mistake of thinking of the Cleric as a healer [U]only[/U]. Clerics can also be phenomenal tanks, damage dealers and buffers. My favorite combo (and most basic) is Spirit Guardians for a 15ft aura of 3d8 damage to all enemies, Spiritual weapon as a bonus action for 1d8+4, and Toll of the Dead for 2d12 on a wisdom save. That is an average of 35 damage on a single target, and with a decent AC the cleric can lurk on the front-lines dishing it out. If you think clerics suck because other people can heal, I'd suggest trying to build a cleric (war/tempest/light or grave) that does not do healing, and see if that changes your opinion. Grave is especially good because they have Spare the Dying as a ranged bonus action, meaning that they can pretty easily stop death, even if they take no healing spells. I don't disagree, but I will note that we generally don't play the game the designers seem to expect us to. Tehy put a lot of value on things like natural weapons, that none of us utilize, and designed the game assuming no feats, which most of us use. So, there is some give and take with the idea that classes might be well balanced, but in the style of game you are running. 160 temp hp and 44 damage a round is ridiculously good. Even if it lowers your damage, you've essentially made the front-liners immune to damage for a few turns. I'm not saying it is the perfect strategy at all times, but it is a dang good one in general. [/QUOTE]
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