Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
Okay. There is a thread currently active discussing the Monk and whether or not it sucks. I have not gotten involved in that thread, because it is currently around 47 pages and there's not much for me to add to the current discussion.
Monks are not the main topic of this thread, but they can be discussed. Monks have their flaws, IMHO, and don't quite suck but are lacking at certain levels. There are a few classes that do deserve the "suck" label on them, and these are the ones I think deserve it, in order of worst to not as bad:
First, and foremost, Favored Enemy. At first glance, it seems like a nice boost; a free language, advantage on certain Intelligence (History) checks, a bonus to damage against certain creatures. The problem with this feature is, it is totally dependent on the DM's campaign. If you build an amazing ranger character with a backstory that explains why you hate this certain type of creatures (lets say Dragons), and how you've trained yourself for years at being an expert at tracking them, and you can't wait to show off how good your character is at slaying dragons. Then, your DM starts off the campaign, and you are whisked away to the Feywild in the first session where the only dragons you fight in the entire campaign are Faerie Dragons. You suddenly don't feel so happy about the character you made, if the only creature you ever fight that qualifies as your favored enemy is a tiny rainbow dragon the size of a cat. Then, later in the campaign, you finally level up to level 6, and you finally choose Fey as your second favored enemy, and suddenly the DM's campaign goes to the Shadowfell, where there are no fey to be seen.
Is this the DM's fault? Technically yes, but maybe the DM wasn't purposefully trying to screw your character. It becomes apparent to you, the DM, and the rest of the party that Rangers suck. Not because it's easy for the DM to cheat you out of the ability, but because the DM can cheat you out of the ability, even accidentally. This isn't how class features should function. It is a core ability to the Ranger, that you get before Hunter's Mark, and it can be so easily subverted.
Then, at level 1 you also get Natural Explorer. Another ability that at first glance deceives you to think it's good. The benefits to it are all good, but there's one key thing. You only get to choose one terrain you get those benefits in. This has the same problem as Favored Enemy, the DM can accidentally screw you over very easily. If you're playing in Descent into Avernus, I'm sorry, but no matter what terrain you choose, your ability will mostly be useless for this campaign. That's not really the DMs fault, it's the rule's fault. It sucks.
Then, spellcasting. You get some fairly good spells, but everyone takes Hunter's Mark, and you suck if you don't. At level 2, congratulations! You now only have one more spell to choose. Also, you only get to change one of them when you level up. You don't even prepare your spells, like Artificers and Paladins (which are the only other half-casters in the game). So, in summary of this ability, it's a nice boost, but you are still the worst half-caster in the game.
Then, your Archetypes. Besides the fact that they didn't even bother being creative in the name of this feature, the subclasses from the PHB suck. Both of them suck. The Beast Master is the worst of all of them, too. The Hunter, when compared to the subclasses in Xanathar's, sucks (no spell lists, not as good abilities, etc).
Primeval Awareness, which also sucks. It's kind of like the paladin's Divine Sense, but worse in every way besides range and a boost in the creature types. This ability is a nightmare for DMs, but also annoying for players because you don't know how many creatures the are, where they are, or what they are.
Land's Stride and Vanish are fine abilities, but they come too late and are not good enough when compared to other classes' abilities of similar levels.
Hide in Plain sight is also almost completely useless, and has the same problem as Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
Finally, Foe Slayer, which is one of the worst capstone abilities in the game.
Rangers suck, their abilities suck, and most of their spells suck, as concentration is taken by Hunter's Mark 99/100 times. This is not to say that you can't make a ranger that is good at damage dealing. You can, fairly easily, but the class isn't good enough at the things it is supposed to be good at, and isn't overall as good as other classes when compared.
Now, Sorcerers. They are probably the worst Arcane Casters in the game and need major revisions. Here's why:
First, their spell lists. Did you know that Sorcerers only have one spell that is unique to their spell lists? That's Chaos Bolt, and every other caster in the game (except Artificers) have more unique spells.
Next, they don't know enough spells. They only get 15 spells known total, no spell lists for subclasses, and have less spells known than any Xanathar's subclasses for Rangers. Yes, rangers, a half-caster, have more known spells than a full caster. They also can't change their spells enough, having to wait for a level up to change one spell.
Then, sorcery points, the Ki of Spellcasting. They don't get enough of it. Ki recharges on Short Rests, which means at early levels Way of the Four Elements Monks (which are also awful) can cast more 1st level and higher spells in a day than sorcerers.
Metamagic, the main feature of the Sorcerer class. There's not enough options, and you don't get to know enough of them. You get 2 at level 3, and then can't change them or pick any more options until level 10.
Sorcerous Restoration is also one of the worst capstone abilities in the game. (Also, by this level, Wizards get an at will 1st and 2nd level spell, and can actually cast those levels of spells more than Sorcerers)
Monks, which have been discussed heavily in the other thread. Sure, at certain levels they can deal quite a bit of damage, but they normally have to spend Ki to keep up or deal more damage than the other classes, and they have a dry period where they don't suck, but also don't get enough to be a good class at those levels.
Warlocks:
Okay, warlocks don't suck as much as Rangers and Sorcerers, but they are lacking in some ways as well. They only have 2 spell slots from level 2 until they get to level 11, are normally reduced to eldritch blast spamming, and while playing a warlock, if you don't take enough short rests, you can definitely feel like you suck.
Okay, please comment below. Any other classes that you think would clarify to make this list? Any that you think shouldn't be on it?
Monks are not the main topic of this thread, but they can be discussed. Monks have their flaws, IMHO, and don't quite suck but are lacking at certain levels. There are a few classes that do deserve the "suck" label on them, and these are the ones I think deserve it, in order of worst to not as bad:
- Rangers.
- Sorcerers
- Warlocks and Monks, tied.
First, and foremost, Favored Enemy. At first glance, it seems like a nice boost; a free language, advantage on certain Intelligence (History) checks, a bonus to damage against certain creatures. The problem with this feature is, it is totally dependent on the DM's campaign. If you build an amazing ranger character with a backstory that explains why you hate this certain type of creatures (lets say Dragons), and how you've trained yourself for years at being an expert at tracking them, and you can't wait to show off how good your character is at slaying dragons. Then, your DM starts off the campaign, and you are whisked away to the Feywild in the first session where the only dragons you fight in the entire campaign are Faerie Dragons. You suddenly don't feel so happy about the character you made, if the only creature you ever fight that qualifies as your favored enemy is a tiny rainbow dragon the size of a cat. Then, later in the campaign, you finally level up to level 6, and you finally choose Fey as your second favored enemy, and suddenly the DM's campaign goes to the Shadowfell, where there are no fey to be seen.
Is this the DM's fault? Technically yes, but maybe the DM wasn't purposefully trying to screw your character. It becomes apparent to you, the DM, and the rest of the party that Rangers suck. Not because it's easy for the DM to cheat you out of the ability, but because the DM can cheat you out of the ability, even accidentally. This isn't how class features should function. It is a core ability to the Ranger, that you get before Hunter's Mark, and it can be so easily subverted.
Then, at level 1 you also get Natural Explorer. Another ability that at first glance deceives you to think it's good. The benefits to it are all good, but there's one key thing. You only get to choose one terrain you get those benefits in. This has the same problem as Favored Enemy, the DM can accidentally screw you over very easily. If you're playing in Descent into Avernus, I'm sorry, but no matter what terrain you choose, your ability will mostly be useless for this campaign. That's not really the DMs fault, it's the rule's fault. It sucks.
Then, spellcasting. You get some fairly good spells, but everyone takes Hunter's Mark, and you suck if you don't. At level 2, congratulations! You now only have one more spell to choose. Also, you only get to change one of them when you level up. You don't even prepare your spells, like Artificers and Paladins (which are the only other half-casters in the game). So, in summary of this ability, it's a nice boost, but you are still the worst half-caster in the game.
Then, your Archetypes. Besides the fact that they didn't even bother being creative in the name of this feature, the subclasses from the PHB suck. Both of them suck. The Beast Master is the worst of all of them, too. The Hunter, when compared to the subclasses in Xanathar's, sucks (no spell lists, not as good abilities, etc).
Primeval Awareness, which also sucks. It's kind of like the paladin's Divine Sense, but worse in every way besides range and a boost in the creature types. This ability is a nightmare for DMs, but also annoying for players because you don't know how many creatures the are, where they are, or what they are.
Land's Stride and Vanish are fine abilities, but they come too late and are not good enough when compared to other classes' abilities of similar levels.
Hide in Plain sight is also almost completely useless, and has the same problem as Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
Finally, Foe Slayer, which is one of the worst capstone abilities in the game.
Rangers suck, their abilities suck, and most of their spells suck, as concentration is taken by Hunter's Mark 99/100 times. This is not to say that you can't make a ranger that is good at damage dealing. You can, fairly easily, but the class isn't good enough at the things it is supposed to be good at, and isn't overall as good as other classes when compared.
Now, Sorcerers. They are probably the worst Arcane Casters in the game and need major revisions. Here's why:
First, their spell lists. Did you know that Sorcerers only have one spell that is unique to their spell lists? That's Chaos Bolt, and every other caster in the game (except Artificers) have more unique spells.
Next, they don't know enough spells. They only get 15 spells known total, no spell lists for subclasses, and have less spells known than any Xanathar's subclasses for Rangers. Yes, rangers, a half-caster, have more known spells than a full caster. They also can't change their spells enough, having to wait for a level up to change one spell.
Then, sorcery points, the Ki of Spellcasting. They don't get enough of it. Ki recharges on Short Rests, which means at early levels Way of the Four Elements Monks (which are also awful) can cast more 1st level and higher spells in a day than sorcerers.
Metamagic, the main feature of the Sorcerer class. There's not enough options, and you don't get to know enough of them. You get 2 at level 3, and then can't change them or pick any more options until level 10.
Sorcerous Restoration is also one of the worst capstone abilities in the game. (Also, by this level, Wizards get an at will 1st and 2nd level spell, and can actually cast those levels of spells more than Sorcerers)
Monks, which have been discussed heavily in the other thread. Sure, at certain levels they can deal quite a bit of damage, but they normally have to spend Ki to keep up or deal more damage than the other classes, and they have a dry period where they don't suck, but also don't get enough to be a good class at those levels.
Warlocks:
Okay, warlocks don't suck as much as Rangers and Sorcerers, but they are lacking in some ways as well. They only have 2 spell slots from level 2 until they get to level 11, are normally reduced to eldritch blast spamming, and while playing a warlock, if you don't take enough short rests, you can definitely feel like you suck.
Okay, please comment below. Any other classes that you think would clarify to make this list? Any that you think shouldn't be on it?
