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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8059252" data-attributes="member: 7015698"><p>That's all well and good, but that's the basic competency level. As you've pointed out: everybody can do it. If you didn't have a class and only ability scores, you'd still be able to pull these checks off.</p><p></p><p>It's not fair that some classes are limited to those naked checks while other ALSO get fancy buttons to press from tme to time. Everybody should get some. It's fine if some get MORE buttons than others, but I feel like the few scraps given to some classes are way over valued.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And we're back to the Purple Dragon Knight...</p><p></p><p>'Know your Enemy' and 'Remarkable Athlete' are at the same level as 'Royal Envoy'... and Royal Envoy isn't significantly better than the other two. And that's it for the PDK's so called 'social prowess' or this idea that it gives us combat competency for being good at non-combat stuff. A Battlemaster is just as effective, and with Rally, might even want better charisma than the PDK so his Persuasion could easily be as high.</p><p></p><p>(I will note that I think Remarkable Athlete is kind of a bad ability that also has the in-combat effect of boosting your Initiative)</p><p></p><p>The PDK's bonus skill proficiency should come in at 3rd level. The healing thing is not good enough as a third level ability on its own, so could at least add non-combat buffs to the class so you can make a better case for this mythical social prowess they supposedly give up combat potential for.</p><p></p><p>Then, at 7th you give out Persuasion Expertise and throw in some bonus languages. If you're gonna be an Envoy you should know more languages to speak with foreign dignitaries...</p><p></p><p>The action surge based thing is nifty, but it needs to do more and getting to use it on two allies should NOT count as your sole level 18 ability, that's lame.</p><p></p><p>Bulwark is terribad.</p><p></p><p>And they need a real level 18 ability.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 8059252, member: 7015698"] That's all well and good, but that's the basic competency level. As you've pointed out: everybody can do it. If you didn't have a class and only ability scores, you'd still be able to pull these checks off. It's not fair that some classes are limited to those naked checks while other ALSO get fancy buttons to press from tme to time. Everybody should get some. It's fine if some get MORE buttons than others, but I feel like the few scraps given to some classes are way over valued. And we're back to the Purple Dragon Knight... 'Know your Enemy' and 'Remarkable Athlete' are at the same level as 'Royal Envoy'... and Royal Envoy isn't significantly better than the other two. And that's it for the PDK's so called 'social prowess' or this idea that it gives us combat competency for being good at non-combat stuff. A Battlemaster is just as effective, and with Rally, might even want better charisma than the PDK so his Persuasion could easily be as high. (I will note that I think Remarkable Athlete is kind of a bad ability that also has the in-combat effect of boosting your Initiative) The PDK's bonus skill proficiency should come in at 3rd level. The healing thing is not good enough as a third level ability on its own, so could at least add non-combat buffs to the class so you can make a better case for this mythical social prowess they supposedly give up combat potential for. Then, at 7th you give out Persuasion Expertise and throw in some bonus languages. If you're gonna be an Envoy you should know more languages to speak with foreign dignitaries... The action surge based thing is nifty, but it needs to do more and getting to use it on two allies should NOT count as your sole level 18 ability, that's lame. Bulwark is terribad. And they need a real level 18 ability. [/QUOTE]
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