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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 8059705" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>So, a couple things that have come to mind from the last few pages of this thread.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bards in a psuedo-pre-industrial society should be much more well respected than some of y'all seem to think. I don't think most of us really appreciate just how important music is to the human condition, or how important lore-keepers and story-tellers are to societies without printing presses or recording devices.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Putting Ability Scores first and above skills was a mistake. It limits characters. Instead, skills should be what you are doing, while Ability Scores are <em>how you are doing it.</em><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You don't make a Charisma Check with Persuasion, you Persuade the guard to let you through. Depending on the situation and the characters involved, you might easily rely on your Strength, Charisma, Wisdom, or even Dexterity, Constitution, or Intelligence.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sure, Charisma will be the most common AS to be used with Persuasion, but a Wizard can convince a librarian using Intelligence or outwit a guard using Int with Deception.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Yes, this is an option in the DMG, but by making it the default PHB way that ability/skill checks work, you increase the degree to which people can just make the character they imagine, and be able to interact with the world in a way that makes sense to them, while avoiding the whole thing where the Bard is always the best person to talk to any NPC ever.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Bard archetype has badly lost the plot in dnd, and would be better off by getting back to the importance of lore-keeping and story-telling, and the viscerally important and ubiquitous role that song plays in the lives of pre-recorded-music culture. (Seriously, look up work songs. If you don't think the Bard can make you a better Blacksmith, you don't know enough about history.)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bards should be just as much a skill monkey as the rogue, but they should specialize in making everyone else better at skill use, with a side specialisation in impressing and influencing groups of people and important figures like kings and lords. Not sure how to do that last part without something like Audience rules, though.</li> </ul></li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 8059705, member: 6704184"] So, a couple things that have come to mind from the last few pages of this thread. [LIST] [*]Bards in a psuedo-pre-industrial society should be much more well respected than some of y'all seem to think. I don't think most of us really appreciate just how important music is to the human condition, or how important lore-keepers and story-tellers are to societies without printing presses or recording devices. [*]Putting Ability Scores first and above skills was a mistake. It limits characters. Instead, skills should be what you are doing, while Ability Scores are [I]how you are doing it.[/I] [LIST] [*]You don't make a Charisma Check with Persuasion, you Persuade the guard to let you through. Depending on the situation and the characters involved, you might easily rely on your Strength, Charisma, Wisdom, or even Dexterity, Constitution, or Intelligence. [*]Sure, Charisma will be the most common AS to be used with Persuasion, but a Wizard can convince a librarian using Intelligence or outwit a guard using Int with Deception. [*]Yes, this is an option in the DMG, but by making it the default PHB way that ability/skill checks work, you increase the degree to which people can just make the character they imagine, and be able to interact with the world in a way that makes sense to them, while avoiding the whole thing where the Bard is always the best person to talk to any NPC ever. [/LIST] [*]The Bard archetype has badly lost the plot in dnd, and would be better off by getting back to the importance of lore-keeping and story-telling, and the viscerally important and ubiquitous role that song plays in the lives of pre-recorded-music culture. (Seriously, look up work songs. If you don't think the Bard can make you a better Blacksmith, you don't know enough about history.) [LIST] [*]Bards should be just as much a skill monkey as the rogue, but they should specialize in making everyone else better at skill use, with a side specialisation in impressing and influencing groups of people and important figures like kings and lords. Not sure how to do that last part without something like Audience rules, though. [/LIST] [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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