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<blockquote data-quote="Asisreo" data-source="post: 8060894" data-attributes="member: 7019027"><p>This will probably be my final rant about this "social" and "exploration" stuff that comes up about characters like fighters and barbarians. </p><p></p><p>First off, the "three pillars of play" is an abstraction. It isn't actually a real concept. There is no such thing as the three pillars of play. The designers introduced the term to the system to give a guideline for structuring the adventure. But an adventure is not equally distributed by three types of scenarios isolated from one another. You can engage with them all at once easily. The only requirement for exploration is that the DM describes the environment and the players react. If the players have their character communicate that they need to focus on the boss during combat, they've engaged in all three pillars simultaneously. It's possible to have situations where each section is isolated, but they never have to be. The players and DM are free to intertwine any of these pillars in any given scenario. </p><p></p><p>Second off, your class is not the driving force on how your character interacts with the world. You character's background is. And it's more than just "apply 2 skills and get money." I'm talking about what you write who your character is. Whether they're elegant or arrogant, whether they're kind or rude, your personality traits, bonds, ideals, alignments. Your background shifts the way the story flows in profound ways. Even if the DM was not planning on it, if they follow the natural course of action, your background has already shaped the story. </p><p></p><p>Third off, there's this weird obsession with classes being unique and how spellcaster can do unique things with what they can do but other characters can't be unique. Having access to charm person doesn't make your character unique. A bard, sorcerer, druid, warlock, or wizard has access to that same spell. A spellcaster can almost never be truly "unique." Even with expertise, both the bard and rogue has it, so that isn't unique either. There's very few unique socially applicable spells and features available to any given class. But, more than that, how would your character possibly be unique if someone else can just take the same class as you? Anyone can play a wizard, what makes your character unique because they're a wizard? If you think that makes your character unique because it's such a huge investment that you can't double back on it, how come backgrounds don't get that treatment. Sure, someone can pick the same background as you, but it's such a big investment and it's unchangeable. How does that not make you anymore unique than being a cleric? </p><p></p><p>More than that, it's laughable how afraid some people are from DM fiat. The entire game is DM fiat even if you're playing a module. In it's purest form, you'll never get better without DM fiat. People say it's easy to get equipment so it shouldn't count as DM fiat, but DM fiat is precisely having the equipment available at the store. How is it not DM fiat that a character multiclasses but it's DM fiat when they use alternative ability scores? How can it not be DM fiat to expect expensive material components to be handed out but it is when magic items are to be given? The DM can postpone your level ups indefinitely, even your class features are DM fiat. Even in regular EXP, he can choose to not have any threatening monsters appear until the boss fight where you're level 1 vs the demilich because the DM decided to never allow level ups. DM fiat is part of the game, moreso, it <em>is</em> part of your power. Your power is tied directly to the DM no matter how RAW you try to keep your games. If you shy away from that power, you've gimped yourself before you've even created your character. And if your DM won't accomodate you, tell them it's hurting your gaming experience and you don't feel motivated to play with them anymore. Be upfront and honest. If your DM is the type to target your characters weakness unjustly or is obviously biased against your character, even if accidental, then it needs to be discussed. You cannot unmarry the DM from the game without changing the entire system in a way that might as well be a videogame or boardgame. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Lastly, it's okay that some players have options with less actual engagement with these "pillars." Not every subclass should be equal in those terms. But those types of classes are pretty rare. Fighter can go eldritch knight and rogue can go arcane trickster. Monks have a place socially with their high wisdom and the 2 PHB barbarians have some nice low-key social stuff going on with them if you know how to use them. But if a player wants a low-option, low-engagement style, they should be obliged to do so and not be forced to be in a specific role by a class. Imagine how awful it would be if owning a keep was part of the fighter's chassis. Now an innocent player would need to start organizing their keep and keep it running and the DM would have to take care of that as well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Asisreo, post: 8060894, member: 7019027"] This will probably be my final rant about this "social" and "exploration" stuff that comes up about characters like fighters and barbarians. First off, the "three pillars of play" is an abstraction. It isn't actually a real concept. There is no such thing as the three pillars of play. The designers introduced the term to the system to give a guideline for structuring the adventure. But an adventure is not equally distributed by three types of scenarios isolated from one another. You can engage with them all at once easily. The only requirement for exploration is that the DM describes the environment and the players react. If the players have their character communicate that they need to focus on the boss during combat, they've engaged in all three pillars simultaneously. It's possible to have situations where each section is isolated, but they never have to be. The players and DM are free to intertwine any of these pillars in any given scenario. Second off, your class is not the driving force on how your character interacts with the world. You character's background is. And it's more than just "apply 2 skills and get money." I'm talking about what you write who your character is. Whether they're elegant or arrogant, whether they're kind or rude, your personality traits, bonds, ideals, alignments. Your background shifts the way the story flows in profound ways. Even if the DM was not planning on it, if they follow the natural course of action, your background has already shaped the story. Third off, there's this weird obsession with classes being unique and how spellcaster can do unique things with what they can do but other characters can't be unique. Having access to charm person doesn't make your character unique. A bard, sorcerer, druid, warlock, or wizard has access to that same spell. A spellcaster can almost never be truly "unique." Even with expertise, both the bard and rogue has it, so that isn't unique either. There's very few unique socially applicable spells and features available to any given class. But, more than that, how would your character possibly be unique if someone else can just take the same class as you? Anyone can play a wizard, what makes your character unique because they're a wizard? If you think that makes your character unique because it's such a huge investment that you can't double back on it, how come backgrounds don't get that treatment. Sure, someone can pick the same background as you, but it's such a big investment and it's unchangeable. How does that not make you anymore unique than being a cleric? More than that, it's laughable how afraid some people are from DM fiat. The entire game is DM fiat even if you're playing a module. In it's purest form, you'll never get better without DM fiat. People say it's easy to get equipment so it shouldn't count as DM fiat, but DM fiat is precisely having the equipment available at the store. How is it not DM fiat that a character multiclasses but it's DM fiat when they use alternative ability scores? How can it not be DM fiat to expect expensive material components to be handed out but it is when magic items are to be given? The DM can postpone your level ups indefinitely, even your class features are DM fiat. Even in regular EXP, he can choose to not have any threatening monsters appear until the boss fight where you're level 1 vs the demilich because the DM decided to never allow level ups. DM fiat is part of the game, moreso, it [I]is[/I] part of your power. Your power is tied directly to the DM no matter how RAW you try to keep your games. If you shy away from that power, you've gimped yourself before you've even created your character. And if your DM won't accomodate you, tell them it's hurting your gaming experience and you don't feel motivated to play with them anymore. Be upfront and honest. If your DM is the type to target your characters weakness unjustly or is obviously biased against your character, even if accidental, then it needs to be discussed. You cannot unmarry the DM from the game without changing the entire system in a way that might as well be a videogame or boardgame. Lastly, it's okay that some players have options with less actual engagement with these "pillars." Not every subclass should be equal in those terms. But those types of classes are pretty rare. Fighter can go eldritch knight and rogue can go arcane trickster. Monks have a place socially with their high wisdom and the 2 PHB barbarians have some nice low-key social stuff going on with them if you know how to use them. But if a player wants a low-option, low-engagement style, they should be obliged to do so and not be forced to be in a specific role by a class. Imagine how awful it would be if owning a keep was part of the fighter's chassis. Now an innocent player would need to start organizing their keep and keep it running and the DM would have to take care of that as well. [/QUOTE]
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