Classics of Fantasy

[Desdichado]

I can't really argue with that; although I haven't read either in many years, I suspect that if I read them again today I'd think the same thing. I'm not necessarily trying to say that Howard is a better author than Leiber, just that Rateliff's "dissin'" of Howard isn't warranted.

 

[mmadsen]

I agree with Rateliff that the Leiber stuff is better.

What?! Them's fightin' words, nikolai!

The Bleak Shore, The Sunken Land, and The Howling Tower all have a elegance to how the story works out. Howard approaches this in some stories, such as the The Tower of the Elephant, but doesn't equal Leiber.

Two thoughts: (1) I really need to get around to re-reading the "good" Leiber stories, and (2) The Tower of the Elephant never did much for me (for an original REH Conan story).

 

[d4]

you know, i've read Watership Down at least four or five times (it's bar none my favorite "fantasy" novel; even beating out LOTR), and i never caught the Aeneid references before. now that he's spelled it out, it's quite obvious.

that's cool; i like discovering things like that.

i like Watership Down because it works on so many different levels. when i first read at around age 10, it was a cool book about rabbits with lots of adventure and wonder in it. when i later reread it around age 18, i could also see it as an allegory of modern human societies. now i've got it as a retelling of a classic Roman epic as well.

 

[mmadsen]

i like Watership Down because it works on so many different levels. when i first read at around age 10, it was a cool book about rabbits with lots of adventure and wonder in it. when i later reread it around age 18, i could also see it as an allegory of modern human societies. now i've got it as a retelling of a classic Roman epic as well.

It sounds like it's time for a re-reading of Watership Down too. I read it around age 11, and I haven't read it since. I enjoyed it on a cool-rabbit-adventure level then, but I was only vaguely aware of the parallels to human societies; I could tell there were supposed to be parallels there, but I couldn't tell exactly what the parallels were (or what they meant).

I certainly didn't see the Aeneid parallels. Of course, I still haven't read the Aeneid even now, I'm ashamed to say.

 

[Desdichado]

Ah, well. Neither have I.

 

[d4]

I certainly didn't see the Aeneid parallels. Of course, I still haven't read the Aeneid even now, I'm ashamed to say.

heh, well technically neither have i.

i was supposed to read it for a World Literature class last year, but i just skimmed through bits and pieces of it. i do have a pretty good grasp of the plot line from the professor's lectures, though.

but to continue on Watership Down, this is the basics of what i saw:

their first home (Sandleford Warren?) had an aristocratic / feudal sort of structure with a ruling class (the Owsla) who were seen as superior to the masses.

at Watership Down, Hazel was trying to implement a more egalitarian and democratic society, although most of the other rabbits wanted to treat him like nobility (as they had been used to back home).

Efrafa was obviously a fascist state, with a powerful military/police force (the Owslafa) and a charsimatic dictator (Woundwort). the society was stratified into regimented groups that were strictly controlled and any infractions were dealt with harshly.

Cowslip's warren i'm not so sure about. it had a certain Orwellian 1984ish vibe to it -- with a powerful unseen "Big Brother" figure who simultaneously provided for all the warren's needs but could also destroy anyone at any time without notice. the paranoia and decadence of the warren were noted by Hazel and the others while they were there.

 

[Joshua Randall]

*bump*, now that the boards are back.

Also - which one of you guys is a fellow Cleveland-dweller? I've requested many of the books discussed here, but every single one is already checked out of the county library system. I started to wonder what was up when the seventh book I requested was not available.

 

[mmadsen]

Also - which one of you guys is a fellow Cleveland-dweller? I've requested many of the books discussed here, but every single one is already checked out of the county library system. I started to wonder what was up when the seventh book I requested was not available.

It's not me. Besides, I feel compelled to buy books.

So, has anyone been reading these classics? I've had so much other reading to get through; I haven't made time for a few Leiber stories.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I have started reading Forgotten Beasts of Eld. It's a quick read, so I'm forcing myself to hold off and savor it. There is some nice language, and the overall feel is quite old-fashioned, in a good way.

I also have just received one of Dunsany's books. Whomever was hoarding the Cleveland books has relented.

 

[Henry]

Ironically, Morris did not intend to help create a new genre but was seeking to revive a very old one: He was attempting to recreate the medieval romance... [King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table] were merely the most well-known among a vast multitude of now-forgotten tales... Morris's new medieval tales belong to a new genre: the fantasy novel.

The side question came up in a recent thread, "what's so medieval about D&D?" referring to the costuming, et. al. being more renaissance than medieval. It seems that, according to this piece, the most medieval thing about D&D and the fantasy genre - is the story style!