Cleave and AoO

[Li Shenron]

I agree with Dimwhit in this case: I am not very sure, but I don't allow a Cleave in AoO, because this means getting an extra attack against someone who is NOT provoking AoO from you. Also the general rule that AoO is one single attack always (no flurry of blows, no TWF) may be an extra reason, but not necessarily. If you allow Cleave, there is no point then in not allowing Greate Cleave, which may mean potentially up to 8 attaks in the whole opportunity.

I am more doubtful to forbid Improved Trip: this is 2 attacks, but since both are against the same foe that provoked AoO, I would allow it. In my personal view, ImprTrip is not simply 2 attacks, but more a single attack with "double effect". Ok, my wierd view, but I usually imagine the tripper deliver both attacks with a single acrobatic strike.

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

I agree with Dimwhit in this case: I am not very sure, but I don't allow a Cleave in AoO, because this means getting an extra attack against someone who is NOT provoking AoO from you. Also the general rule that AoO is one single attack always (no flurry of blows, no TWF) may be an extra reason, but not necessarily. If you allow Cleave, there is no point then in not allowing Greate Cleave, which may mean potentially up to 8 attaks in the whole opportunity.

Really though, how is that any different than getting an cleave on an opponent during a regular attack sequence. When your attack drops the orc in a normal attack, what did the cleave target do to provoke the attack? Nothing, other than be standing in an area threatened by you. This is a classic example of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I think it is sometimes overlooked that the cleave target during an AoO has to be in your threatened area. Its not like you can get an attack against an opponent who is only standing next the fallen victim. Of course this brings up an interesting question, can you utilize Supreme Cleave (from the Splat books) during an AoO? That can be a frightening image, the Master Samurai wading through rows of orcs because the front line orc decided to drink a CLW potion.

 

[Macbrea]

Here is an odd effect that can happen with great cleave and whirlwind attack.



LBL
LCL
LLL

L = little guy
C =Character
B = Big guy

Character starts a whirlwind attack on Little guy in the nw corner and drops him. Cleaves Big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Then proceeds whirlwind to big guy.....

Somedays, it just doesn't pay to have friends.

 

[Caliban]

Theoretically, it is possible to 5' step between whirlwhind attacks, but I'm not sure if it was intended.

 

[mikebr99]

This is a perfectally legal move...

And so is cleave/great cleave during whirlwind...

If your AoO kills... the followthrough gets a chance to hit the next guy...

And during a whirlwind. if one of the attacks, kills, then deal with the cleave right away, then continue rolling the whirlwind.

 

[Lord Ben]

I allow it in some situations and not in others. If 5 guys run past the fighter in a hallway I'd let him use cleave. If bob the wizard casts and gets killed he can't use it against joe the fighter standing next to him. It's not hard and fast, but it works for me.

By the rules it says anytime... but that's silly.

 

[mikebr99]

Here is an odd effect that can happen with great cleave and whirlwind attack.



LBL
LCL
LLL

L = little guy
C =Character
B = Big guy

Character starts a whirlwind attack on Little guy in the nw corner and drops him. Cleaves Big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Proceeds whirlwind to next little guy dropping him. Then great cleaves big guy.
Then proceeds whirlwind to big guy.....

Somedays, it just doesn't pay to have friends.

Cleave/Great cleave states it is to be used to another baddie in the immediate vicinity... of the one you just fell... So, the Big Guy is only going to get cleaved once or twice of of this move...

 

[Macbrea]

Ahm, the character did cleave another target after he dropped a little guy. It just happened to be the first target.

 

[Macbrea]

And as to wether that could ever happen in a game? I have seen Great cleave get used a total of 3 times in all our campaigns. And Whirlwind attack get used once.



So, Its not really going to come up that often.

 

[Mordeth]

Immediate vicinity being...

Immediate vicinity being within reach? In this example would be 5-foot, seeing in how there are no facing rules in 3ED