Cleric´s 2 skill points is pathetic.

[Rashak Mani]

Cleric´s 2 skill points is pathetic.

So a Wizard stays a lot of his young life studying and doesnt get out much... but his high INT is reflected on Know(Arcana), spellcraft and Concentration skills.

Sorcerors are natural magic wielders and there lack of study is reflected on low skills and usually not good INT score.

Druids living outdoors get more skills in nature stuff and yet somehow manage some reasonable Concentration and Religion studies.

Then we have Clerics... who thou living until now cloistered lives... should have been studying a lot of theology (aka Knowledge - Religion), social skills for dealing with the flock (Diplomacy, Sense motive), Basic Healing skills (Heal) and magic related topics (Spellcraft, Know Arcana).

Yet recent polls with adventuring Clerics have found a terrible gap between theory and reality. Most wanna be hero Clerics have a terrible understanding of Religion... Concentration thou usually good is sometimes completely neglected when other skills are favored. Heal is all but an unknown skill among the Clergy. Monks have been giving first aid help much more frequently... as for Basic Knowledge of Spellcasting and the working of magic is non existant. (Mystras Cleric exempted ) Most Clerics have no idea of how magic is made or what gives it strength... they are dumbfounded whenever other Spellcaster launch Magicks they seem to have no notion about. Even Magic Missile is a mystery to these understudying clerics.

Reforms should therefore be enacted of giving a better basic education in most Churches and Temples... even if a slight difference is to be gained ( 3 skill points per level ?)

Replies explaining why Clerics are so badly educated/trained would be most appreciated.

 

[reiella]

Balance.

Also a fair bit of difference in the idea of clerics too.

These are clerics who go around training to be wearing heavy armor and combat skills that are alot better off than wizard's.

There's also that it is more likly that their deities tend to necessitate a more active role in society than a simple cloistered monk would.

 

[Crothian]

Don't get your clerics and priest mixes up. A cleric would not be trained to deal with the flock. They have armopr and weapons training, not flock training. Clerics learn how to cast spells and channel positive energy, too. THat is where the training time goes not in some uselss skills.

 

[Rashak Mani]

They cast spells but dont understand the principles behind it... its like having an artillery officer who doesnt care for mathematics or physics !!

Combat training could include a little healing too you know ! Granted the cloistered priest idea isnt too correct.

I figure as is... they are more like Combat Troops than Representatives proper of their religion... religion they dont know specifics about due to low skill points

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Yup

...if you want that kind of "cleric", simply take away most of his armor proficiencies, give him only simple weapons, give him 4 or 6 skill points per level and call him "priest"

 

[hong]

I figure as is... they are more like Combat Troops than Representatives proper of their religion

BINGO!

 

[hong]

Re: Yup

...if you want that kind of "cleric", simply take away most of his armor proficiencies, give him only simple weapons, give him 4 or 6 skill points per level and call him "priest"

There are six million alt.priests around. Plus or minus 5,999,995 anyway.

I've written up a variant based on the OA shaman, which can be found on my D&D page (link in sig). Crothian has another in the House Rules forum. The adept NPC class is a serviceable generic priest as well.

 

[nsruf]

The Cleric class is really a religious fighter/champion, not a parish priest or bookish monk (European tradition, not Asian tradition monk, that is). It is one of my bigger gripes with the core classes as well that there is no less combat-oriented priest class for PC use. For some religions, e.g. Boccob or Olidammara, this seems totally inappropriate

But check out the Ecclesiastic in the Netbook of Classes at http://www.enworld.org/fancc/nboc/downloads.html, which fills this role, IMO.

Also, the Umbragia religion sourcebook will introduce a customizable Priest class. The first draft will be available in a few weeks at http://www.d20reviews.com/jagged/umbragia/index.html.

 

[Thorntangle]

The Cleric class is really a religious fighter/champion...

If that's a Cleric, what's a Paladin? Why can't a cleric lead a flock? Clerics can convert, they can rant and rave in the streets, they can discuss theology and submit articles for publication on various and sundry religious topics. They are just of a bit of a more combative bent.

It's all about game balance rather than logic.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Now I know most crusaders werent strong on theology... but Combat Priests (aka Clerics) have powerful magic and yet little knowledge of Basics... they can turn undead but dont have Religion knowledge... even less Know Undead or Outerplanes.

Seems silly Dieties would invest in these combat monsters so much power and responsibility without minimal preparation or knowledge.

Whenever a groups seems something of magical nature... the groups mage promptly investigates what the phenomena is... but should they find something related to Religion or Dieties magic... the Cleric is usually dumbfounded.

So even being combat oriented they dont have the minimum required for a proper basis for their powers and roles... in comparison the Paladin which is Combat Oriented mainly has the same number of skill points !!