Cleric Spellbook

[Herzog]

I'm thinking about giving the Cleric a spellbook (prayerbook if you like) that functions just like the wizards:
Clerics can only learn those spells that are in their prayerbook.

I'll probably leave the domain spells as 'free' spells (can be learned without a prayerbook).

The same methods for (new) spell acquisition would apply as for wizards.

Now, before even thinking about suggesting this to my players, I'm asking here whether you think this would reduce the playability of the Cleric to an unplayable point?

As a sidenote, I would like to add that the player currently running a Cleric would probably welcome a reduction in choice, since she really hates going over the entire list every (in game) day diciding what to select.
However, should other players take up a cleric at some time, they would be impacted by this too, of course.

Your thoughts?

 

[Starbuck_II]

I'm thinking about giving the Cleric a spellbook (prayerbook if you like) that functions just like the wizards:
Clerics can only learn those spells that are in their prayerbook.

I'll probably leave the domain spells as 'free' spells (can be learned without a prayerbook).

The same methods for (new) spell acquisition would apply as for wizards.

Now, before even thinking about suggesting this to my players, I'm asking here whether you think this would reduce the playability of the Cleric to an unplayable point?

As a sidenote, I would like to add that the player currently running a Cleric would probably welcome a reduction in choice, since she really hates going over the entire list every (in game) day diciding what to select.
However, should other players take up a cleric at some time, they would be impacted by this too, of course.

Your thoughts?

I think you should grant all healing and inflict spells automatically.

It makes no sense to be able to spontaneously cast a spell you don't even know.

 

[Herzog]

Good catch.
It won't impact the campaign I'm currently running (due to other houserules) but any spell that can be cast spontaneously (healing or inflict) should be available without having to learn it.

Should I introduce druids using the same mechanic, they would know Summon Nature's Ally.

 

[Ashtagon]

For druids, rather than have books (which doesn't make too much sense considering the class concept), perhaps they could carry around a series of spell tokens which they meditate upon? Certain herbal plants and trees could also be used to meditate, as if they were a natural spell book (obviously not containing the entire druid list in each one though).

 

[Loonook]

Why should druids not have spellbooks? The Voynich Manuscript, with its depictions of biology, herbology, astronomy, and cosmology could easily be a druidic manual of spellcraft... paper can be made of plenty of sources, and the creation of pulp from ritually sacrificed dreams, or vellum from a kid goat raised to serve as part of a hallow sacrificial effect for the glade...

Sanctum-based druids could have caves of spells, trees which bear the markings of the druid's handiwork, or a long lightning-struck ash staff bearing the spell which allows the druid to sense the specific type of reading magic he has shaped to notice the subtle differences in placements of stones and such as his natural spellbook.

Plenty... plenty of possibilities for druids to have spellbooks. I can imagine Cleric spellbooks would probably appear in the style of a book of hours, or perhaps

 

[Herzog]

Mmmmm. I was expecting raging hordes with pitchforks and torches, protecting the poor Cleric from the mad DM.

Ok, let me refrase my question:

Why should I NOT do this?

 

[Loonook]

Honestly I've always thought that clerics should be... a bit different in the context. Since they are calling down the power of the heavens... it may be interesting to let prescribed prayers be comparable to miraculous happenings.

Happenings would cost you a spell slot, take you a longer time to cast (lvl worth of rounds?) and make a check of some sort. If passed, you spontaneously cast the spell, burning the slot.

Ehh... that's my story .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Herobizkit]

I could see the only reason NOT to do this would be to appease the players who hate Vancian spellcasting. The ability of clerics to pray for any spell is (supposed to be) offset by their shorter and arguably more thematically focused spell list. If Clerics must now scrounge for their spells, I would suggest making said Clerics more like Wizards by using the Cloistered Cleric variant from the SRD.

Or do what I did... ban wizards and make Sorcerers and Favored Souls the primary casters of my campaign world.

 

[Orius]

Mmmmm. I was expecting raging hordes with pitchforks and torches, protecting the poor Cleric from the mad DM.

Ok, let me refrase my question:

Why should I NOT do this?

Well, it does introduce a disadvantage to the cleric. If you're just using the main PHB/SRD spells, there's little reason to bother with this variant.

However, I have been considering for quite a while the idea of a prayerbook for clerics as a means of introducing less common spells. This goes back in large part to the 2e Priest's Spell Compendium which had a very large number of spells and added in a spell rarity system like the Wizard's Compendium. I've been thinking of adding prayerbooks to the campaign as a way of controlling the use of non-common spells (essentially everything outside the PHB/SRD), since allowing the cleric to memorize ANY cleric spell is a bit unbalancing compared to the way a wizard gets spells. CoDzilla's bad enough with just core. Part of this would be having deity specific spells/prayers, and maybe having different orders within a faith that have their own subset of spells/prayers.

My idea was somthing like they all have a basic prayerbook that has the proper devotions to receive any PHB/SRD spell. Other spells they have to find the prayer for at various shrines, temples, abbeys, or whatever, much in the same way a wizard uses libraries. So maybe something like a spell from Complete Divine which is relatively common is known to an order within the church and the cleric needs to join the order or at least visit one of their churches to learn it. A rare spell might only be found in a single monastery. The prayers shouldn't be as difficult to replace as a spellbook though, because while a spellbook represents a wizard's personal knowledge, the prayers and devotions a cleric goes though to gain spells are part of a broader religious tradition. Making domain and spontaneous spells free is a good idea I hadn't considered.

I'm specifically using the term prayerbook here because conceptually, they not using the book as a set of notes to mentally prepare magic, but they're praying to their god for various miracles. They shouldn't do it exactly the same way as a wizard.

Another problem I've have with the idea is just what to do with druids. Druids should have something similar if clerics do for balance. Books don't really seem to fit into druid flavor though. There've been a few good ideas already.

And because you created this thread, I can just easily glom onto it here instead of making a new one.

 

[Jack7]

Herzog, I like the idea of a Prayerbook. I got a few of my own. In real life, not in game. But it seems like something a cleric would naturally want, would want to create, and would gravitate towards. I've created a few of my own and I'm not even ordained.

I'm not gonna use the idea exactly like you describe, as a parallel for the Spellbook, but I am gonna adopt and adapt the idea for my own setting. It's a really good idea.

I'm thinking of using it to concentrate the other powers of the Cleric (like laying on hands and helping to heal), to improve his relationship with his God, or gods, maybe to help augment or extend miraculous power (divine spell power). I'm even gonna use prayerbooks as code-books (having secret capabilities underneath the magically Divine writings) and as conjuncts to scriptures. And as treasure.

There's a lot of things you can do with this.

It's a good, solid idea.
Appreciate it.

Have some XP.