Cleric (Templar) is Up

[Matt James]

When WotC first bought TSR, there was a fear that they'd turn D&D into Magic:the Gathering.

Can you qualify this statement? I don't recall this at all. I remember the sense of liberation the fanbase had because TSR had run D&D into the ground.

 

[Droogie128]

Can you qualify this statement? I don't recall this at all. I remember the sense of liberation the fanbase had because TSR had run D&D into the ground.

Read the rest of his post. He kind of has a point.

These statements were mostly made when 3e was released, and you can see it on amazon reviews and such. It was also pretty common on their forums, IIRC.

 

[Matt James]

Read the rest of his post. He kind of has a point.

These statements were mostly made when 3e was released, and you can see it on amazon reviews and such. It was also pretty common on their forums, IIRC.

I read the whole post, which was predicated off of that statement. I just don't recall it being that way; thus why I asked.

 

[Aegeri]

People complained that 3E turned DnD into a video game and ruined it etc. I remember that, but I honestly cannot remember anyone saying they would turn DnD into Magic.

As for Divine Oracle: So it got stealth nerfed. That's brilliant. Now I have to wonder what the hell else might actually have been changed without me knowing about it.

Really, this is an extremely poor way of doing things Wizards.

 

[IanB]

I do remember a certain subset of people being worried that they would tie the products together - like we'd start seeing MtG cards with Elminster on them, and a Dominaria campaign setting, spells being sold in random packs, etc.

I don't know that it was a LOT of people worried about it, but I definitely remember there being a bit of chatter on those sorts of things.

 

[shmoo2]

It was really changed in Heroes of the Fallen Lands with the Warpriest. Healing Word doesn't have the Divine keyword in there. This did cause some debate, but the Templar made it official, I guess.

No, Healing Word was changed before Essentials.

The Offline Character Builder from before Essentials has no Divine keyword on Healing Word.

This change was made like a year ago.

 

[BobTheNob]

I'm inclined to think they actually understand the potency of AoE, unlike the majority of the community. The damage reduction in Come and Get It is also a testament to this. I believe the community undervalues AoE damage.

In my game the following is entirely possible, fighter pops Come and Get It, followed by Paladin's Astral Thunder, Sorcerer's Flame Spiral, and Shaman's Guardian Eagle Flock. If these powers only catch 3 targets, that's the equivalent of four rain of blows. With a near guaranteed initiative using something like Strategist's Epiphany, AoE's deliver a decisive blow to the enemy out of the gate, which the enemy often won't recover from.

The dev team can be accused of many things, but I don't think overvaluing AoE is one of them.

I think AOE in this game is too powerful. You have to consider that AoE multiplies potential damage output (in the right circumstance).

By the end of the game, our wizard (allegedly controller) was out damaging both our teams striker in all but solo encounters (thank you very much dual implement focus...+6 from one feat, what were they thinking).

In one encounter, we hit the pause button to add up our wizards damage in a round. 900+ is a big number, a big big number.

Frankly, AOE areas burst 8 just shouldnt be in the game, full stop. The fact that it was on an encounter power just shows the immature state of the game when they designed it. Developers have clued on that close burst 8 is too much, full stop. The changes to turn undead and solar wrath reflect this.

 

[Aegeri]

The Character Builder is not a rules resource and is irrelevant in these discussions. The only valid rules resources are the online compendium - albeit I will grant you it's hilariously wrong on a whole ton of things now - books (Rules Compendium) and official errata documents. Healing Word never saw any of these things and people debated if it still had the divine keyword due to the lack of errata (and the fact the first PRINTED version did). Now they have reprinted it without the divine keyword for the templar it is an official rules change.

The CB is irrelevant.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Can you qualify this statement? I don't recall this at all. I remember the sense of liberation the fanbase had because TSR had run D&D into the ground.

It was 14 years ago, and the community wasn't quite as monolithic back then, so you could certainly have a different recollection of that watershed moment. As I recall, it was really part of a broader fear that CCGs were dooming the RPG hobby, outright, as, for a few years there, they positively took over conventions, and seemed poised to swipe a whole generation of potential RPGers. And, if you don't remember /that/, well, try some Co-Q10.

WotC did make its fortune with M:tG, it's still a major property of theirs, and every so often they put out something for D&D that's collectible (minis since 3.0), or cards (power cards), or arctual collectible cards (Gamma Word Alpha/Omega cards; Fortune cards).

I read the whole post, which was predicated off of that statement. I just don't recall it being that way; thus why I asked.

Meh, it was just by way of introducing the idea. The points still stand, whether you think it was a long time coming, or that it's a total shock to everyone that WotC might want to make D&D perform more like the M:tG cash-cow.

 

[Matt James]

That still doesn't validate your prior post, which is what I was challenging. Also, TSR was producing collectable cards several years prior, and merchandized anything they could.