Clerics and Thieves

[JacktheRabbit]

Can someone please explain to me why Father Bob the cleric who spends his time in church casting spells to heal the masses has more hitpoints than Ralph the thief who has lived on the street his whole life, has never known where his next meal might be and brawls more often than a prizefighter?

If WOTC wants to make a smart change to 3E than swap the hitdice around please.

Give the cleric a D6 and the Thief a D8.

That would be more logical in my book and at the same time it will help balance things since everyone seems to think the cleric is the most powerful class of them all and thieves are often considered one of the weaker classes.

 

[Dragongirl]

Channeling godly power strengthens clerics?
Many rogues/thieves go to that way of life because they are poor and thus in less robust health?

 

[Wee Jas]

I think the thief your describing would have levels of fighter. Most thieves probably rely more on stealth and bluff than actual combat. Sneak attack and flanking.. etc etc.

Clerics have that 'spirit' that keeps them up. A cause to fight for.. a reason to get up after each pounding they take. I picture the cleric who prays all day to have a lower con and no armor with a high wisdom compared to the War cleric who is all 'fighter'd' out.

Just my 2 copper.

 

[haiiro]

As I see it, the original basis for the cleric was a warrior-priest of sorts - someone who wades into battle along with knights and footmen, in full armor and swinging his "holy water sprinkler." Having a decent hit die allows clerics to fill a swing role in the party: provide spell support (especially buffs) and healing, but also fight - although not nearly as well as the explicitly martial characters.

Thieves/rogues are not structured to be frontline fighters, and their skills, weapon choices, armor proficiencies and so forth all reflect this - as well as their HP. Giving rogues a beter hit die removes some of the differentiation between classes and unbalances the rogue - who already has sneak attack, many special abilities and skills up the wazoo. IMO, of course.

Not all rogues brawl more often than a prize fighter, but D&D provides other ways to create those who do: multiclassing as fighters, Toughness feat, etc. - not to mention prestige classes.

 

[boothbey]

Many rogues/thieves go to that way of life because they are poor and thus in less robust health?

Good point...

conversely...the priest has the benefit of the best food, healing magics, curative spells when he gets sick, etc. Doesn't take much effort to keep a cleric on prime health....

 

[Thanee]

Because Clerics do not sit in churches and cast spells. Clerics have extended fighting experience (good BAB, all armour proficiency, etc).

If you want to model Father Bob, you need a new class, or make him a Commoner, but then he cannot cast any spells either...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shadeus]

Father Bob would be a Country Clergy (CMG's NPC class) or an adept. Actually Country Clergy is just what you are looking for: 1d6 hp who can heal all day long.

 

[Sanackranib]

rogues as front line fighters

As I see it, the original basis for the cleric was a warrior-priest of sorts - someone who wades into battle along with knights and footmen, in full armor and swinging his "holy water sprinkler." Having a decent hit die allows clerics to fill a swing role in the party: provide spell support (especially buffs) and healing, but also fight - although not nearly as well as the explicitly martial characters.

Thieves/rogues are not structured to be frontline fighters, and their skills, weapon choices, armor proficiencies and so forth all reflect this - as well as their HP. Giving rogues a beter hit die removes some of the differentiation between classes and unbalances the rogue - who already has sneak attack, many special abilities and skills up the wazoo. IMO, of course.

Not all rogues brawl more often than a prize fighter, but D&D provides other ways to create those who do: multiclassing as fighters, Toughness feat, etc. - not to mention prestige classes.

yet the rogues are most often in the front. go figure

 

[I'm A Banana]

yet the rogues are most often in the front. go figure

They ARE?!

Not IMXP...the rogues I've had have skirted around, run in circles, and generally tried to avoid combat unless they knew they got the drop on the enemy (and then would run away after sneak-attacking). They may stay up there for a round or two, but then they run back cryin' to Cleric.

Clerics are more in front than rogues are.

And yeah, clerics have d8 because they're actually trained martial fighters as well as healers. Because positive energy flows through them.

And rogues have d6 because instead of staying and fighting they scamper away into the darkness. The Rogues' power is in not getting hit, not in surviving a hit.

 

[LostSoul]

It's for the same reason that Clerics get all armour proficiencies. They're trained to fight.