Clerics as spontaneous casters

[Plane Sailing]

Sorry, this slipped off my "radar". I'll try to answer each of these questions.

A few more questions (sorry to pester you...) :

Do you limit access to certain spells based on the deity worshipped ?

My campaign is monotheistic, so the issue doesn't come up. If I was using a polytheistic campaign I would probably say that half of the known spells must be from one of the deities domains.

Do I also understand that you have regular clerics also in your campaign ?

Yes - it is one of the big campaign arcs actually - most clerics come from a nation which is a religious theocracy, with proselytes running temples in other nations across the world. Something is going bad in the theocracy, and many of the temples are turning to evil. Some think this is connected with the preparing and casting of spells - "using" their god, rather than serving him. Funnily enough, at about this time the prophets have started appearing - the spontaneously casting men who are waaaaay outside the normal priestly hierarchy and (they claim) are being commissoned by Asura to bring righteousness back to the temples. Think Old Testament biblical prophets.

What happens with domain spells ? Are they automatically known ?

I've included the domain spells amongst the "knowable" spells, but didn't make them bonus spells. If I was to do that, I'd only let the prophet select a single domain, and get the bonus spells known from that domain in addition to the ones he chooses according to the sorcerer list each level.

Do you give access to a feat that allows more spells known ?

I don't do this. I do give access to a feat (called sorcerous mastery - it is mainly for sorcerers) which allows spontaneous casters to know 3+Cha mod spells so well that they can metamagic them as a standard action instead of a full-round action. Somewhat analogous to the wizards feat which gives them some spells they don't have to prepare

How does this impact druidic faith ? If you have only prophets in your campaign, are druids also spontaneous casters ? If not, what's the rationale ?

IMC druids are not divine casters, they are another separate kind of magic known as shamanism, and they are found amongst the barbarian tribes. They prepare and cast spells as per the PHB

Finally, what do you find to be the most important changes ? I imagine that there's potentially more healing spells ?

The most important change that I've noticed is that it gets rid of the (to my mind unbalanced) ability of clerics to always prepare the best possible combination of spells each day, at no particular effort (when compared to wizards, for instance). It does mean that (like the sorcerer) it pays to consider from the beginning what divine spells you would like to know from each level since you have such a limited choice. It also means that (like the sorcerer) you tend to be one level behind at the biggest spells, and it is a lousy class for multiclassing with unless you just take one level of prophet.

Healing has never been an issue.

Cheers

 

[ShawnLStroud]

Basically, the question about spontaneous vs. prepared is this :

Is casting spontaneously an advantage over preparing ? The answer, obviously, is yes. The next question then becomes : what is it worth ? Is it worth limiting your available spells ? To what extent ?

With the table above, should I slightly increase the number of spells available per day ?

I've dispensed with the "prepared" rule in my campaign with no ill effects. Since the campaign was in full swing, I didn't make any limitations on the PCs.

However, If I was starting a NEW campaign, I'd limit the player clerics/paladins/druids to the domains of their deities. This focuses the sacred character on the path of his/her god, and (severely) limits the number of spells available.

 

[Sammael99]

I've dispensed with the "prepared" rule in my campaign with no ill effects. Since the campaign was in full swing, I didn't make any limitations on the PCs.

However, If I was starting a NEW campaign, I'd limit the player clerics/paladins/druids to the domains of their deities. This focuses the sacred character on the path of his/her god, and (severely) limits the number of spells available.

Shawn,

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I allow a number of spells to be picked out of the deity's domain (for a bit of versatility) but most of the spells known are inside the domain (see table above.)

If you had to start anew, would you :

a/ limit the number of spells known without increasing the number of spells cast ? If yes, to what extent ?

b/ go "full sorceror" ?

 

[Dalamar]

I use a fully spontaneous form of casting for clerics in a Play-by-post I DM at the IC forum (Swashbucklers of the Sword Coast).
There is no real limit on how many spells a cleric (or any other divine spellcaster for that matter) can cast and he still knows all the spell in his spell list. He could even try casting a 9th level spell at 1st level.
But then comes the big boom: the DM decides if the deity is willing to grant the spell. If the 'deity' thinks the spell is used for an unfitting purpose, or that the cleric has already asked too much for his status, the 'deity' is free to grant a different spell, not grant a spell at all and such things.
The deity can also choose to give the cleric greater spell than was asked for or one with greater caster level. This is rare but possible.

The problem is that the game has slowed down to a dripple because I started with a huge battle. The game started some year back and the first combat is still in progress (partly due to me not doing the updates fast enough). This meaning that there hasn't yet been much testing of how it works.

 

[Spatzimaus]

If you really want Clerics to be like Sorcerers in having a limited number of Known spells and no memorization, here's how I'd do it:

1> Use the existing Spells/Day table for Clerics (which has less spells than a Sorcerer but reaches new spell ranks one level earlier), ignoring the previous +1 domain spell.
2> Use the Spells Known table that Sorcerers have EXCEPT add one to every number, and on the odd levels just before a Sorcerer would reach a new spell rank (the places where Clerics do) put a 1. (i.e. a Cleric of level 2X-1 gets one known level X spell)
3> But, the first two known spells of a rank are your two domain spells.

So, for example, we have a 7th-level Cleric with domains A and B. As a 7th-level Cleric, he can cast level 4 spells. However, he only knows one level 4 spell, either the A4 spell or the B4 spell. At level 8 he gains another known spell, but it's still either A4 or B4, whichever he didn't already know. At level 9 he'll get another level 4 spell, and this time can pick any normal Cleric spell.

Compared to a Sorcerer, he'll have fewer spells per day, one more spell known but is forced to spend two spells each level on Domain spells... and can wear armor. And has a higher BAB and HP. And granted powers. And turning. And a more useful primary stat. This is why I prefer the semi-prepared system I mentioned earlier.

 

[Havoc]

I like the idea of spontaneous spell casting for every class save wizard of course. Btw I have just posted my rules for prepared spells and look forward to reading you comments... but I digress.
I am waiting my green ronin's big book about gods (I cannot remember the title) to delve further in the subject myself.
What I would like to do, besides spontaneous casting, is to make all spells and clerical abilities dependant of the gods spheres of influence, portfolios etc. It means that some clerics will be stripped of their healing and turn undead abilities, and thus I will have to find a way to balance them.

 

[bensei]

In the Umbragia Setting a book for divine spellcasting classes is just in the sneak peaks. The divine spellcasters (Priests and Crusaders) use spontaneous casting with a table of spells per day. Their spells known are determined by domains.

The current sneak peak is here.

 

[Havoc]

In the Umbragia Setting a book for divine spellcasting classes is just in the sneak peaks. The divine spellcasters (Priests and Crusaders) use spontaneous casting with a table of spells per day. Their spells known are determined by domains.

The current sneak peak is here.

Thanks for the pointer that looks definitely promising and seems very close to what I wanted!!!!!!

 

[bensei]

If you have comments, suggestions, etc., feel free to post them on the Umbragia messageboards. KDLadage (the father of the Umbragia setting) relies strongly on contributions, and it's the possibility for everyone one the messageboards to give comments and suggestions how he/she wants his/her perfect setting to be like.
Just post your impressions about it on the Umbragia message boards.

 

[Nifft]

IMC Clerics get one domain at creation. They get their normal number of spells per spell-level, minus one. If that leaves 0 spells for a given level, they only get their bonus spells.

Clerics can take additional Domains as Feats.

A Cleric can convert any memorized spell to a spell from his domain(s) of the same level. If you want to freely convert to healing spells, take the Healing domain. If you want Inflict spells, take the Destruction domain.

Clerics start out proficient with sheilds, light armor and all simple weapons. If a Cleric takes the War Domain, he gains proficency with medium armor and one martial weapon (or Focus with one simple weapon, depending on what his deity prefers).

This makes Clerics sorta one-trick Sorcerers, but still allows them to memorize spells for some flexibility.

-- Nifft