D&D General Making Spellcasters feel Caster-y without actually Casting?

[zakael19]

I also wish rituals were more than just… the same spell, but takes 10 more minutes and doesn’t cost a spell slot.

I think how games that look more at the wider mystical legend/fiction world do this sort of thing are really cool. Like how Beyond the Wall moves a lot of general purpose magic out into the Ritual section, makes them far more deliberate then quick in-combat cantrips and spells, and adds a longer time/material requirement as well. They feel like actual Rituals.

Maybe when your wizard with Stealth proficiency sneaks around, he’s not just hiding but using his petty magic to place a veil of shadows around himself, or to make his clothes change color to camouflage.

As somebody noted above, this could be an interesting version of like warlock invocations. Maybe you could even tie it to spell schools / subclasses to give them more flavor? Extend prestidigitation flavored by your specialty and growing ability? "Veil of Shadows: As an illusionist, you can now gather nearby shadows to help blend into the environment. You may use your Arcana proficiency when making a Stealth roll" or whatever.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This isn’t about how many slots casters should or shouldn’t have, it’s about what kind of abilities they could have that’d make them feel like they’re using magic but which don’t rely on spells and slots.

So if they had zero slots? Are they still casting spells, or just using class abilities that feel "magical"?

I suppose in 5e you'd end up with something similar to warlock invocations, with different choices, schedules of acquisition, and flavor. In which case I'd be strongly tempted to make them all one giant "magic-user" class with a bunch of different expressions, since the core framework for all of them would be the same.

 

[Charlaquin]

One thing I really liked about the D&D Next Playtest version of the warlock was that instead of spell slots that just worked weird, it had unique abilities (IIRC they were called “minor boons” or something) that they could cast a small number of times between short tests, “lesser boons” that were basically what Invocations are now, and I assume the Mystic Arcanum we have now are the evolution of what would have been “major boons” if we had ever gotten to see them. The only way those playtest warlocks had of casting spell spells was as rituals. And personally, I thought felt a million times more magical than any fire-and-forget Vancian caster I’ve ever played.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This would be my preferred alternative. Infuse magic into the mundane actions of spellcasters. Maybe when your wizard with Stealth proficiency sneaks around, he’s not just hiding but using his petty magic to place a veil of shadows around himself, or to make his clothes change color to camouflage. Not anything that necessarily grants a mechanical benefit, just as a way to narrate the skill check.

I also wish rituals were more than just… the same spell, but takes 10 more minutes and doesn’t cost a spell slot. Something more than that, without going as far as the new “get six guys together to cast fireball a mile away” circle casting. Not that there’s anything wrong with circle casting, but some kind of intermediary step between that and regular rituals would be nice.

Of course, if the only thing you're doing is re-skinning skill use and reducing or eliminating spell slots, that's a straight nerf.

 

[Charlaquin]

Of course, if the only thing you're doing is re-skinning skill use and reducing or eliminating spell slots, that's a straight nerf.

Oh, I meant re-flavoring skills as a thing you can do now as a way to make casters feel more magical without messing with their balance. If you’re planning to take away spell slots, yeah, you’d need a much more significant redesign.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Personally I think a large number of spells are ones that could / should be absolutely fine as At-Will magical effects. We already have that with a number of Warlock Invocations, but there's no reason why a lot more spells could just be effects a magic-user could "just do". I mean how often does Comprehend Languages ever show up or get used that it would be some major hardship if someone could just always do it at-will?

Yes, I know a lot of people got annoyed by the "always successful" never-get-lost ability of the 5E14 Ranger (because they thought it eliminated the so-called "interesting" plotline of a party getting lost in the wilderness), and some who hated that 5E14 Backgrounds gave players "always successful" abilities in their Features that didn't require any sort of skill check... but if you are not one of those people, then just letting some magical abilities always be available is the way to go.

Jump, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Comprehend Languages, Alarm, Disguise Self, Grease, Fog Cloud, Illusory Script, Silent Illusion... etc. etc. etc... any of them could be magical features that a magic-user could just do all the time and as often as they want, and would make for a different, but potentially interesting variation of a campaign.

 

[Voadam]

I suppose in 5e you'd end up with something similar to warlock invocations, with different choices, schedules of acquisition, and flavor. In which case I'd be strongly tempted to make them all one giant "magic-user" class with a bunch of different expressions, since the core framework for all of them would be the same.

In 5e all full casters, bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards are basically variations of the same wizard caster chassis with different little flavor powers like bardic inspiration or sorcerer meta magic.

I think cleric and druid would have been better working off of the more limited 9 levels of casting but bigger themed power model of the warlock caster.

I think paladins are great with their healing and aura and turning half caster slots into smites. Rangers and caster subclasses for non caster classes like eldritch knight and arcane trickster are ok as it is just adding some magic stuff to a martial base.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

3.5 & 4Ed did have ways for supernatural characters to exhibit certain supernatural abilities at will, so there’s no reason why 5th couldn’t as well.

My personal favorites were things like Reserve feats and certain psionic abilities. There were also some variant classes and late-edition base classes that could also do some form of at wills.

But as noted, I liked the Reserve feats the most. Those- along with other feat-based powers- meant that the abilities gained weren’t universal to a given class, but were instead related to the way in which the character was developing. On a certain level, it makes sense that a spellcaster devoted to mastering a certain element or energy might develop such an affinity for it that they gained abilities beyond those of dilettantes.

 

[Stormonu]

So, there's once again discussion in a thread about how casters get too many slots to properly balance them for the adventuring day and while i don't want to focus on that specifically it sparked something to think about, if we wanted to move caster design away from being reliant on having a big ol' pile of spell slots to enable the casters to do their magical things and feel magical what abilities would we give them instead?

personally i think the paladin and the artificer are a good place to draw inspiration from because they have to try to 'feel magical' while only relying on halfcaster progression, as well as the warlock who already embodies this kind of slot-minimalism caster design, paladins have their lay-on-hands: healing which isn't dependent on slots, and their auras, always-on proximity buffs, artificers have their magical tinkering and their infusions, proxying their magic into objects instead.

so what kind of design would you choose to use if casters needed to be designed with their slots being less of their primary avenue of magic?

I'd probably go with a casting roll, and fixed formulas. Arcana (and Religion) would be the actual skill you use to activate a spell.

At each level, give out about two formulas. Formulas would be akin to what we now know as spells, maybe a touch broader - somewhat like a feat chain. To cast a spell, you select a formula and pick the difficulty you want to cast it at. The greater the effect, the higher the DC, and some spells (perhaps the likes of 5th or 6th level and above) may require multiple successes before they can be put into effect.

An example Formula might be "Essence of Fire". Starting at DC 10, you could create a Firebolt that 1d10 fire damage. For DC 12, maybe 2d10. A fireball from Essence of Fire might be DC 15, but you need three successes to unleash it (though something like this might work better with the "any three actions" of another thread). Something akin to Meteor Swarm with Essence of Fire might replicated with 10 checks at DC 18, or something along that lines.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

so what kind of design would you choose to use if casters needed to be designed with their slots being less of their primary avenue of magic?

Are you talking about a game redesign such as a future 6th Edition? Or homebrew modifications to existing DnD rules?

If we're talking about a game redesign then I'd say check out MCDM's Draw Steel for inspiration, or hell even something like World of Warcraft talent trees could probably work well. Basically just have each level come with interesting choices for which new abilities to learn, but then they are spammable without resource management other than maybe an overall "mana pool"

If you're homebrewing to existing rules, I can't think of much other than the Variant rules for Spell Points instead of spell slots.