Clerics who don't fight

[Toras]

My Suggestion:
BAB as Wizard
Simple Armor profiency
Simple Weapon profiency
Same Saving Throws
1d4 hitpoints

Add Bonus Domains at Regular intervals every x level s
Spontantous Casting (1 domain at a time)(

 

[Deadguy]

For what it's worth, I think the evangelist is a little too strong. I have a player that just started using one, and I toned down the spells known progression, and limited the domain powers severely. I like the style, but there was just a little too much good stuff in there.

PS

Out of interest, Storminator, what exactly did you do to tone them down?

 

[Deadguy]

I'd keep:
- spontaneous healing (it's so good for out-of-character issues like not having to decide how many healing spells to prepare)
- d8 HD: you want him to provide healing, not to need to be healed by others

Hmmm... I agree with the first point - I think that spontaneous conversion to cure spells was an inspired idea, though maybe it ought to be expanded to one or two more spells (restoration, for example, comes to mind).

But whilst I see your point about not having to spend all his healing on himself, I think a d8 hit die seems to leave too little differential between the variants. I think I have been persuaded to adopt a d6 hit die, however.

 

[Storminator]

Out of interest, Storminator, what exactly did you do to tone them down?

They get spells known plus domain spells, and they get domains every 5 levels (IIRC).

I reduced the number of spells known by one at every entry, and capped the non-domain spells known at 3 (instead of 5). I didn't change the number of 0-level spells known. I also capped the number of domain powers at 3, instead of granting the domain power each time.

I haven't tested it very much yet, but we'll see how it goes.

PS

 

[Saeviomagy]

Wow! That's not an answer I expected (which is always a good thing). But I think I disagree with your thesis. A Cleric with low strength can raise it through magic, and can make use of tools that are appropriate to that character build. He will still have access to the same BAB chart, and can become nigh as effective as a High-strength Cleric. So I don't think the comparison is exact.

OTOH, he could use a different selection of spells to do exactly the same thing (just in a different way). Having to rely on spells to allow you the use of your equipment is a major pain, almost enough to make you scrap the idea (and the equipment) and go with something else. The only real benefit that a caster-style cleric gets over a mage is the ability to wear armour (a benefit which fades as you increase in levels), assuming that he's built for spellcasting, and he spends most of his time casting spells (rather than trying to make an impact in combat).

I've always had this voice in the back of my head which said "it'd be better if the cleric was just a wizard/sorceror with a different spell list".

 

[tburdett]

They get spells known plus domain spells, and they get domains every 5 levels (IIRC).

I reduced the number of spells known by one at every entry, and capped the non-domain spells known at 3 (instead of 5). I didn't change the number of 0-level spells known. I also capped the number of domain powers at 3, instead of granting the domain power each time.

I haven't tested it very much yet, but we'll see how it goes.

PS

Did you even try the character class as presented, or did you just assume from looking at it that is was too powerful and make changes to it?

 

[Storminator]

Did you even try the character class as presented, or did you just assume from looking at it that is was too powerful and make changes to it?

Changed without playing. It gets a LOT of spells. Sure you can't chose them all (some spells are limited by domains) and the list is the cleric list, but it's a divine sorceror with roughly twice as many spells known. And LOTS of domain powers. It's pretty hefty.

Even with my reductions it's still pretty good, and my player didn't bat an eye at my changes.

I'm not sure what I'll do if the player takes a PrC that grants additional domains. I'll have to work that out if/when it happens.

PS

 

[tburdett]

Changed without playing. It gets a LOT of spells. Sure you can't chose them all (some spells are limited by domains) and the list is the cleric list, but it's a divine sorceror with roughly twice as many spells known. And LOTS of domain powers. It's pretty hefty.

Even with my reductions it's still pretty good, and my player didn't bat an eye at my changes.

I'm not sure what I'll do if the player takes a PrC that grants additional domains. I'll have to work that out if/when it happens.

PS

I have a player who wants to try out some of the cleric PrC's in Dragon and most of them, at first glance, seem too powerful.

I was hoping that you had played and found it too powerful, as that would have saved me the effort!

 

[Storminator]

I have a player who wants to try out some of the cleric PrC's in Dragon and most of them, at first glance, seem too powerful.

I was hoping that you had played and found it too powerful, as that would have saved me the effort!

Ah ha!

Well, I'm no help here. The evangelist is a base class tho, so it might not be what he's looking for anyway.

PS