Clerics with Access to Permenancy

[JiffyPopTart]

If a 1st level paladin already comes with a PERMANENTLY permanent detect evil, I don't see why you wouldn't allow a cleric that has access to 5th level spells to have it too.

DS

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

Every spell description should contain an xp cost for making it permanent, and if it's at all possible. I once had a cleric of Labelas Enoreth with the Time domain (I think) and I was very frustrated by not having any spells to make permanent.

 

[Firzair]

Hi everybody,
IIRC you can research spells to be made permanent just by using the normal research rules. E.g. if you want to use permanency with detect evil you have to research this use just like a first level spell being researched. Of course, the DM has the last word on the result of the research, i.e. if it's possible to make the spell permanent (I doubt a DM would allow a permanent Greater Invisibility).

Greetings
Firzair

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Wow i'd love to be in your campaign then! The whole point of why its cheaper for permanency is the dispelling effect taking it away forever and thus wasting exp. But with that my first spell at 5th lvl would be permanency!

So, it's a good and sound idea for a cleric to be given the spell as a domain choice and then cough up 1500 XP for a spell that can be dispelled 50% of the time, as opposed to crafting a 40,000 gp item?

Permanent spells in my game are subject to exactly targeted dispel attempts, disjunctions, etc.

Kalman

 

[Wraithdrit]

Dispelled 50% of the time? So your players are constantly running into casters that higher level than them? That is rare in my campaign. Even when it does happen, they are often fighting and not wasting actions casting dispel magic on a random party membe to dispel magic they are not aware is even there.

Even then, a dispel check has to be made. And a simple Spell Immunity: Dispel Magic or CounterSpell ring with a dispel magic will counter the attempt.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

It is a common tactic in my various games to single out the opposing spellcasters and hitting them with targeted dispels. In fact, it became preferable to burn off enchantments and then let the tanks close to melee.

It's so common now that some PCs are purchasing Quicken Spell to throw more dispels around and even Rings of Counterspell only protect against one incoming attack.

50% is not a mathematical estimation, but if you were to ask my players, they would say it is pretty accurate. I tend to roll high.

 

[Victim]

Spell Immunity doesn't work against Dispel Magic anyway.

 

[DM2]

Wow i'd love to be in your campaign then! The whole point of why its cheaper for permanency is the dispelling effect taking it away forever and thus wasting exp. But with that my first spell at 5th lvl would be permanency!

I'd prefer a house rule in favor of the players than playing it as is...I don't see much anyone going for permanency on any of the listed spells when anything from an area dispel to a targeted dispel can take it down (at no cost).

You think its too powerful as something that can be suppressed by dispels? What would your house rule be?

DM2

 

[Spatula]

Every spell description should contain an xp cost for making it permanent, and if it's at all possible.

The XP cost is a very obvious formula based on the level of the spell involved. The minimum caster level also follows from the spell level.

Savage Species includes an extension to the Permancy table for its new spells. It seems to me that the other splat books should have done something similar, but even without such a table Permancy allows for the option of making unlisted spells permanent. It just requires research on the character's part and DM approval.

 

[sithramir]

Dispelled 50% of the time? So your players are constantly running into casters that higher level than them? That is rare in my campaign. Even when it does happen, they are often fighting and not wasting actions casting dispel magic on a random party membe to dispel magic they are not aware is even there.

Even then, a dispel check has to be made. And a simple Spell Immunity: Dispel Magic or CounterSpell ring with a dispel magic will counter the attempt.

I'm sorry you consider it a waste to dispel magic a mage who's whole defense is based on spells and items. If I had a lower level caster in a group fighting against another group that'd probably be the most useful thing I could do to help the fighters is a dispel... Bubbye stoneskin, fire shield, mage armor, shield, prot from arrows, see invisibility, DARKVISION, energy protection spells, PERMANENT spells, magical items that fail saves... The fighter who might have been nigh useless to a smart spellcaster will wipe him in a round or two with that help.

Plus the potential to make them blind in the underdark if they're human or elf or removing see invisibile and using invis spells or removing flight.