Cloak of Mage Armor

[Folly]

gabriel_z, the issue is that there is an existing item that already uses the spell Mage Armor as part of its creation. The equations as before mentioned are guidelines and you should first compare a new item against existing items.

Also mage armor is better compare against a chain shirt, since both do not prevent moving at full speed. But you are not simple playing gaining the same AC bonus, there are a number of other benefits from the item. As has already been mentioned, you gain the AC against incorporeal attacks, but further you also do not have to deal with armor check or spell failure. The cost that Bracers of Armor represent is the cost of increasing ones AC through enhancement bonuses over the base armor of the object. This is why Bracers of Armor has the cost equation as the cost to increase the enhancement bonus on armors. The difference is that the bracers assume a +0 base armor.

 

[jaelis]

Regarding the comparison with the chain shirt, the real comparison would be:

+1 twilight ghost-touch mithral chain shirt: AC +5, no ASF or ACP (and thus usable without armor proficiency), works against incorporeal touch. Total price = 26,100 gp

vs

+5 bracers of armor. Same benefits, total price = 25,000 gp. Not far off.

 

[Nifft]

What I meant is that there are the incorporeal touch and then there are touch attacks. They are two separate attacks and are resolved using their own rules.

I agree with this.

Touch attacks (which are not "incorporeal") ignore armor bonuses, period. It was a mistake on the designer's part to call "incorporeal" attacks "incorporeal touch", since the rules for "touch" are different. :\

Cheers, -- N

 

[Slaved]

As far as players are concerned they certainly do. Unless the player has a specific Splat spell going or is a incorporeal undead, it is just as good as the ghost touch property.

Ghost Touch
This armor or shield seems almost translucent. Both its enhancement bonus and its armor bonus count against the attacks of incorporeal creatures. It can be picked up, moved, and worn by incorporeal creatures at any time. Incorporeal creatures gain the armor or shield’s enhancement bonus against both corporeal and incorporeal attacks, and they can still pass freely through solid objects.

Strong transmutation; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, etherealness; Price +3 bonus.

The big differences are the useful parts for Incorporeal Creatures and I would say that the vast majority of the cost for the Enhancement comes from that ability. Even with it this Enhancement is too expensive but saying that Bracers of Armor have this ability is just plain WRONG!



Bracers of Armor are too expensive as written. Mage Armor is a First Level Spell with a long Duration and it is not unbalanced and so the Base Cost of the Bracers of Armor should be much lower.

 

[Slaved]

Regarding the comparison with the chain shirt, the real comparison would be:

+1 twilight ghost-touch mithral chain shirt: AC +5, no ASF or ACP (and thus usable without armor proficiency), works against incorporeal touch. Total price = 26,100 gp

vs

+5 bracers of armor. Same benefits, total price = 25,000 gp. Not far off.

Ghost Touch, Twilight, and Mithral should all be excluded from this comparison.

 

[Nifft]

4. My intention is to make the "cloak of mage armor" with caster level 1 so it will only cost 2000gp whereas bracers of armor are caster level 7 which is more difficult to dispell. Making the cloak with caster level 7 will cost 14000gp according to the table.

Why not just buy a Wand of Mage Armor (CL 1)? For 750 gp, you have a non-controversial item which does exactly what you want.

I mean, it's not like Craft Wondrous Item is weak... it shouldn't be allowed to substitute for every other item creation feat.

Cheers, -- N

 

[jaelis]

Ghost Touch, Twilight, and Mithral should all be excluded from this comparison.

Only if you want the comparision to be inaccurate

 

[billd91]

4. My intention is to make the "cloak of mage armor" with caster level 1 so it will only cost 2000gp whereas bracers of armor are caster level 7 which is more difficult to dispell. Making the cloak with caster level 7 will cost 14000gp according to the table.

The skeptic in me would be more likely to guess that you wanted a +4 armor bonus without paying the full cost of the bracers at that level.

But were I DMing this situation, if the magic item would duplicate the effect of one of the items already in the DMG, it would cost exactly the same. The difference in caster level, considering magic items are targeted with dispel magic very rarely, should not be a significant factor in the cost of the item that has powers unaffected by caster level.

 

[Folly]

Ghost Touch, Twilight, and Mithral should all be excluded from this comparison.

Why?

Are these not the necessary magical modifications necessary to allow a wizard to use a chain shirt as though it were bracers of armor +5.

As far as pricing is concerned, the magic item creation rules state to first compare against existing items, then use the equations as a guideline.

As for official sources, on the appropriate nature of the cost of armor items. The MIC adjusted the cost of items, usually reducing the cost. If my memory serves me right, the MIC didn't decrease the cost of armor class at all. It is part of the balance of the game that it costs the same amount of resources for each class to get the same increase of AC. The fact that they have different base AC is part of each class. Allowing a class to circumvent this would subtly unbalance the characters and its not like wizards are underpowered in comparison to almost any class.

 

[Slaved]

Why?

Are these not the necessary magical modifications necessary to allow a wizard to use a chain shirt as though it were bracers of armor +5.

As far as pricing is concerned, the magic item creation rules state to first compare against existing items, then use the equations as a guideline.

As for official sources, on the appropriate nature of the cost of armor items. The MIC adjusted the cost of items, usually reducing the cost. If my memory serves me right, the MIC didn't decrease the cost of armor class at all. It is part of the balance of the game that it costs the same amount of resources for each class to get the same increase of AC. The fact that they have different base AC is part of each class. Allowing a class to circumvent this would subtly unbalance the characters and its not like wizards are underpowered in comparison to almost any class.

Why? Because you are giving the Armor a lot of abilities that the Bracers of Armor do not have and increasing the price DRAMATICALLY WITHOUT PURPOSE!!

How many Classes are actually hindered by Arcane Failure in Light Armor? How many of those can simply Cast Mage Armor?

You are taking overpriced option after overpriced option and putting them all together to make a horribly useless item that no Character in their right mind would ever want and then using it in a comparison!!

A Pearl of Power 1 has a price of 1000 Gold Pieces and it can give that Wizard an extra Mage Armor a day or a lot of other options. Putting the price of Bracers of Armor +4 at 1000 Gold Pieces to simulate the cutting away of the options for a more consistent Bonus makes sense!! Doubling the price can be done as well but that sucks with this comparison and is not necessary.