CoC HP Rules Hack

[FlyingMonkey]

From what I've heard and read, one of the biggest gripes about CoC d20 is that high level characters could withstand a fair number of "deadly" blows/shotgun attacks/claw-claw-bite attacks.

If the modified mass damage rule isn't quite fatal enough for your tastes, then how about these ideas:
Option A: At character level 1, HP is determined as per the CoC d20 rules. However at subsequent levels, characters gain *1* HP. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, ONE. CON modifiers do not impact the additional HP after the 1st character level. Higher characters are tougher than your rookies but barely so.

Option B: At character level 1, HP is determined as per the CoC d20 rules. However at subsequent levels, characters gain no additional HP. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, NONE. Is that gritty enough for you?

Option B-1: Same as Option B except max out HP at 1st level, adjusted by the CON modifier.

Option C: At character level 1, HP is determined as per the CoC d20 rules. However at subsequent levels, characters gain HP at a rate equal to their CON modifier if it is positive. Otherwise, if you have a 0 or negative CON modifier then the character does not gain any HP when the character gains a level.

Option D: Same as always, the rules determining HP at level 1 are unchanged. At subsequent levels, the character's HP increases at the same rate as the Base Attack Bonus increases. Offense option characters would be be tougher than Defense type characters, but not by much.
(I don't have my rulebook with me right now so I can't illustrate this option with a by-the-numbers example)

Just some thoughts. Comments, recommendations, violent reactions, SAN loss rolls are welcome.

FlyingM0nkey
-He who can't post without smilies-

 

[Aaron2]

From what I've heard and read, one of the biggest gripes about CoC d20 is that high level characters could withstand a fair number of "deadly" blows/shotgun attacks/claw-claw-bite attacks.

The people complaining about HP escalation are people who wouldn't like CoC d20 unless it were exactly the same as CoC BRP. There's no point nerfing the game for them.


Aaron

 

[Crothian]

The same thing happens when games switch from one rules base to another. And when people aren't willing to give the new one a try. I'm not saying which is better, but more that people just like to complain.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Barely an hour goes by and the thread shifts direction! I'm not saying that either rules set is better. That field has been plowed on other the threads. Choose your own poison - we will all take that rickety path to low SAN - whether by BRP or by d20.

The original post was my little take on "Less Pulp, More Grit in d20"...

Does anyone have any constructive comments on the HP rule mods? Is it an abomination before the deities from beyond? Or do you think it has some worth? Can you suggest any tweaks?

FlyingM0nkey

 

[shadoe]

Option E

Set massive damage Fort Save = DC 15 + 5 for every 5 hp beyond 10 on a single attack.

I think hit points should be left alone. Just change the DC of the massive death fort save. That would give it a more horrific cast imho for the players when someone with a large number of hit points dies after a single attack.

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I really like option A. It shows a slow growth of character as you gain levels, but not really enough to adversely effect the game. Any of these makes Toughness really populiar, though.

 

[mmadsen]

I prefer Hit Points = 10 + Fort/Con bonus and Defense (AC) = 10 + Ref/Dex bonus.

 

[The Crimster]

Personally, I like how it is now. The massive damage rule (heh, almost called it the massive death rule) is an important and often overlooked part of keeping CoC 'down to the mortal level'.

I think it helps in my game that I will not be telling players they 'lose 12 hit points from the shotgun' or '3 hp from the ghoul's attack'. I will be keeping the tally of hit points, only telling the player's their 'wounded state'. Sure I'll be explicit - they will know how bad off they are, for the most part. They just won't know the 'numbers'.

 

[ruleslawyer]

For those of you who actually contemplate having PCs surviving long enough for the hp gains to matter (and what kind of CoC GMs are you?), my rules hack is as follows:

Regular character advancement ceases at 10th level. Levels past this point are "elite levels" and stack with normal levels only for purposes of determining the following :

-Max skill ranks
-Caster level for spells
-Level for purposes of being affected by spells or other abilities

With each elite level, you gain your Con bonus in hp (only), and may choose ONE of the following elite-level benefits:

+1 to any two saves
+1 BAB
10+Int skill points
+1 to any ability score
Any one feat
2d6 SAN

The goal here is to enforce a somewhat higher level of specialization between combat-types and professor-types. Suggestions or comments are welcome!

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I'm at home now and cracked open the rulebook. Re-reading the HP rules for level 1 characters and it looks like Option B-1 is not really a valid, new option.

Personally, I like how it is now. The massive damage rule (heh, almost called it the massive death rule) is an important and often overlooked part of keeping CoC 'down to the mortal level'.

True, now that I'm takign another pass at the rulebook, I also realize that most CoC d20 firearms will cause damage that will force a Massive Damage Rule. That ought to make even the bravest high level character flinch and think twice.

I like the other suggestions, particularly Crimster's "show-but-tell-no-numbers" method.

I think it helps in my game that I will not be telling players they 'lose 12 hit points from the shotgun' or '3 hp from the ghoul's attack'. I will be keeping the tally of hit points, only telling the player's their 'wounded state'. Sure I'll be explicit - they will know how bad off they are, for the most part. They just won't know the 'numbers'.

I chose to modify HP because modifying the Massive Damage rule doesn't take care of some other weird situations. Characters with a high number of hitpoints will still be able to survive several "grievous" wounds from melee weapons. A crazed cultist may hack away at a high level character with a machete or a pickaxe for several rounds, but at most the character might get are various nicks and cuts.

A quick look at the Melee Weapon table will show you that normal attacks won't even get into the damage range that forces a Massive Damage roll. The cultist would either have to be VERY lucky and get some good rolls and a few crits to take down a high level character.

<Begin_Digression> Which leads me to another issue: damage inflation. It is a peeve of mine. "Oh, modern and hitech weapons are so much deadlier than pre-industrial-tech weapons so they MUST cause more damage, and so modern weapon A causes 3d8 damage. But wait... isn't weapon B so much cooler and so much deadlier than weapon A, so lets assign 4d12 of damage to this weapon!" Much as I love Dragonstar - the ever growing pool of da,age dice you need to roll for hi-tech weapons gets kinda silly after a while. But that's ANOTHER story for another thread. <End_Digression>

mmadsen's formula is also nice since it is very BRP-ey.

And yes, Crothian, Toughness suddenly becomes more valuable. But there are only so many times you can take it and before long you might be regretting you didn't pick any of the other more interesting, non-combat feats.

I'm sure the fixes that I suggested will somehow "break" other published rules. Only time and gameplay will tell what will work for you and your players.

Thanks for coming out and joining in the rules mayhem

Until the next banana,
FlyingM0nkey