Cohesion vs Railroading

[iwatt]

Also, there are some players who don't want to have open ended campaigns. some even like railroading .

For example, I'd created this huge world with dozens of cool NPCs, and many different plot ideas they could follow. But my players really just wanted to go into Dungeon-Bashing mode. So always remember to talk it through with them before. My current campaign is pretty linear (Go to A, find clue for B, proceed to C). The players are happy with it, probably cause they know whgat to do, but I still make it seem they're choosing to do this. It also is due to the fact that we play on Tuesday night from 8:00 to 12:00, so it's prety much a stress relieving activity

 

[Wraith Form]

This is SO important. I'd go further, in fact:

Always remember that NOBODY is in possession of the objective truth. EVERYBODY is selling something, and that will always distort their view of things. My players have learned not to take anyone's word for anything; they try and get stories from a variety of sources and then compare to try and puzzle out what REALLY happened.

Exactly....perception is often a coloring or flavoring tool. Especially in a society that still takes omens and superstitions to heart. Use that to your advantage.

I had a thief wearing boots of speed running through a forested area. A ranger saw the thief, and he *perceived* it as a ghost, and told the PCs about it thusly. So the PCs chased a ghost who was, sadly, very real. (Sadly because the thief knew how to use a dagger pretty well, wink).

 

[DongShenYin]

PC motivation... I think that more than anything sums it up. I've played in plenty of games where the GM said "Make a character" and gave no description of the gameworld, no hints about that best sorts of characters for his campaign, and no help beyond making sure the stats were correct. We played in generic worlds with generic characters and generic motives.

But, like I said, that was in my college days. Its only recently that I've been in a actual campaign, playing for about a year in real time. The GM had set up a general purpose for us--help the fallen empire back to glory--and had tied our PC backgrounds into the world and political system. I had joined around their 40th session, so I took over an NPC instead of starting from scratch but he has personality, history, and overall purpose.

The GM's motivated me to be a GM too. But I was staring at my papers the other day and wondering how exactly to structure the first adventure. Which was my original question if I remember correctly. (What to do about an absent-minded GM? hee)

--Dora

 

[barsoomcore]

Cohesion is allow the players to dictate where they want to go and the DM basically following along

I would say, "Allowing players to make any decision they want and at all times looking for answers to the key question of all DMs: 'What is the coolest thing that could happen right now?'"

I think that, even if a DM is technically railroading, if the players themselves feel as if he is not, then is it railroading?

Sure it is. Nothing says a railroaded adventure can't be fun. This is a game. If you're having fun, you're doing it right, whether you're railroading, hacking and slashing, or whatever. Doesn't matter.

"Railroad" is a term that describes a DMing style. It's a RISKY style, but it isn't objectively BAD.

It's risky because if your players are NOT interested in the storyline you've decided is the one for this adventure, you've got no options, and in a worst-case scenario, no game, and thus no fun. And, to posit the counter of the previous argument, if you're NOT having fun, you're doing it wrong.

Railroading works great if the party WANTS to go the same direction as the DM. It's a risky method of DMing, however, and generally speaking you're better served as a DM by preparing for as many eventualities as you can imagine, and even having backup plans for those eventualities you couldn't imagine.

The problem with railroading isn't that it's bad. It's that it's risky.

 

[barsoomcore]

Well, as far as the basic "How do I start a campaign" question, DSY, there's TONS of information on that all over this site, all over the web. Poke around and you'll soon come across more useful stuff than you can shake a good-sized stick at.

The basics as described in Call of Cthulhu are:

Promise A Story: Set up a situation that is interesting, but for which the resolution is not yet defined. PROMISE the story, don't PREDEFINE it.

Deliver A Threat: There has to be something coming after the heroes, some doom bearing down on them IF they don't take action. If they spend the first session in a tavern drinking, bad things should happen to them. I'm personally of the opinion that no matter what the PCs do, bad things should happen to them, but that's me.

Provide A Puzzle: Give them something to figure out. Why did the old man drop dead? Why did he get back up afterwards? Who's that screaming in the woods? Who's shooting from behind that tree? There's lots of kinds of puzzles, from very simple to very involved and complicated, but a good adventure should supply those.

Start there, look around some more, and you'll be MUCH better set than I was when I started.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Deliver A Threat: There has to be something coming after the heroes, some doom bearing down on them IF they don't take action. If they spend the first session in a tavern drinking, bad things should happen to them.

IMO this is more appropriate for a horror game such as Call of Cthulhu than D&D. In D&D the basic setup is that the PCs learn of a source of enrichment - a dungeon -and choose to go there to become enriched. If they don't nothing bad will happen, they'll just remain nobodies.

DnD is fundamentally American in its premise. It assumes you want to make something of yourself rather than merely avoid bad stuff happening to you.

 

[Desdichado]

IMO this is more appropriate for a horror game such as Call of Cthulhu than D&D. In D&D the basic setup is that the PCs learn of a source of enrichment - a dungeon -and choose to go there to become enriched. If they don't nothing bad will happen, they'll just remain nobodies.

Since when?

DnD is fundamentally American in its premise. It assumes you want to make something of yourself rather than merely avoid bad stuff happening to you.

Since when?

I'm sorry, but you are conflating your interpretation of what D&D is with what the interpretation of D&D is. D&D is certainly not so narrowly defined as you are making it out to be.

 

[DongShenYin]

The themes of my campaign are more social-political in nature--the PCs do enrich themselves, but through successfully maintaining advantageous alliances and fulfiling their duties to their patrons. Maybe I'll promise a story, deliver a threat, AND provide a puzzle all at the same time.

 

[barsoomcore]

If they don't nothing bad will happen, they'll just remain nobodies.

Well, see, that doesn't sound like a very fun game to me. Frankly, that's a kind of railroading.

"We're going to hang around in the tavern and see what happens."

"Um, okay, nothing does."

"Oh. I guess we're done playing for tonight, huh?"

"Yeah. Guess we are."

There's a DM who refuses to allow the party to have fun doing anything other than what he has planned for them to do: that, my friends, is railroading. Again, it works just fine if the party follows the lead the DM provides, but it sure sucks for everybody if they don't.

Great stories are almost invariably about bad things happening to people. Happy stories end with people overcoming the bad things that happen and triumphing, sad stories end otherwise, but fundamentally, from Homer to Neal Stephenson, great stories are about people overcoming adversity.

Nobody's saying your campaign has to involve great stories. Killing things and taking their stuff is a time-honoured style of play and it's great fun, no question. But to me, killing things and taking their stuff is even MORE fun if it's part of a great story that my friends and I are making up as we go along.

And in order to try and make my campaign's story as great as I can, I try to make sure that the PCs have bad things happen to them. Constantly. I recommend it as a technique.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I try to make sure that the PCs have bad things happen to them. Constantly.

Well, see, that doesn't sound like a very fun game to me. Frankly, that's a kind of railroading.

Or at least, player disempowerment.