Combat Sequence

[Philotomy Jurament]

12 second rounds? Heretic! The one true round length is 10 seconds:
http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2007/03/realistic-time-in-d_17.html

Ha!

Interestingly, I had picked 12 seconds early on, prior to doing any calculations; at the time, I was thinking of integrating 6 second segments and AD&D spell-casting times (in which case 12 second rounds would fit better than 10 second rounds), but never went that direction.

(Nice analysis, by the way. I know when I ran similar numbers, I was surprised at how close the B/X rates matched my calculations. Not perfect, but much closer than I expected.)

 

[T. Foster]

Interesting stuff on the move rates. I definitely concur on giving dwarves and hobbits a lower base move and elves a higher base move (not sure if I've ever posted about that before or not). Why do you gives elves in plate a 6" rather than 9" move -- just to disincentivize elves from wearing that type of armor (since it doesn't match the traditional image of elves)? I suppose that's as good a reason as any.

Also, I notice you're going with the charge = double move AD&D rule rather than the charge = bonus move (usually about 1/3) Chainmail/S&S rule. How do you reconcile that with the S&S combat sequence where the charge bonus occurs in the second half of the move phase -- i.e. does a character who moves 12" (40') and charges 80' move 20' in the first move phase and 60' in the second, or do you ignore that part of the S&S sequence and set it at 40' and 40'?

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Interesting stuff on the move rates. I definitely concur on giving dwarves and hobbits a lower base move and elves a higher base move (not sure if I've ever posted about that before or not).

You have, although your post gave hobbits the same base move as humans. I steal from Delta too -- see my helmet musing.

Why do you gives elves in plate a 6" rather than 9" move -- just to disincentivize elves from wearing that type of armor (since it doesn't match the traditional image of elves)?

Wow, I'm impressed that you noticed that. Yes, that's exactly why I broke the pattern, there. Elves wearing heavy armor and moving around faster than identically armored humans doesn't mesh with my conception of D&D elves. It's not really that much of a nerf, though; they still move as fast as a fully-armored human, they just lose their "natural elvish speed and grace in movement." Also, magic plate mail would make the whole thing a moot point.

Also, I notice you're going with the charge = double move AD&D rule rather than the charge = bonus move (usually about 1/3) Chainmail/S&S rule. How do you reconcile that with the S&S combat sequence where the charge bonus occurs in the second half of the move phase...

I debated about this, but decided to go with a double-move charge and a straight 50/50 split because of its simplicity. I think it works fine for man-to-man combat. The Chainmail/S&S rules assume mass combat formations. I could see such a formation being slower to start (get everyone going in the same direction, get all the ranks moving, etc.), then picking up speed and inertia as the charge progresses. With man-to-man combat, I don't see any reason to retain that model.

I haven't updated my combat sequence pages to reflect that. I probably will, eventually.

 

[Delta]

The Chainmail/S&S rules assume mass combat formations. I could see such a formation being slower to start (get everyone going in the same direction, get all the ranks moving, etc.), then picking up speed and inertia as the charge progresses.

One thing I realized while working on my own mass-combat rules was that it works out fine even if you just treat it as a function of time sampling. To put it concretely:

- Say in one round a guy moves 90 ft., and when he charges gets an added 90 ft. So, double move at man-to-man scale.
- Now say the mass-combat scale is x3 man-to-man (in time and distance), so in one turn a bunch of guys move 270 ft. But when they move and break into a charge at the end, that's only in the last round (man-to-man scale terms), which is the same 90 ft. as before. So, one-third move at mass scale.

In fact, when I wrote my mass combat rules, for simplicity I said that at mass scale there's no added charge distance; that's abstracted away in exchange for being able to cover the whole distance and resolving an attack before the enemy's next turn.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Here's a tactical movement table that lists normal, half-move, and charge movement rates:

PDF version
HTML version

Both of those come from the same XHTML markup. Prince (the software I'm using to render the pdf) recognizes the CSS I'm using and renders the alternating rows with shading; the browsers I've viewed the XHTML with don't recognize all the styling, though. Oh well; I'm too lazy to make it work both ways.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

One thing I realized while working on my own mass-combat rules was that it works out fine even if you just treat it as a function of time sampling...when I wrote my mass combat rules, for simplicity I said that at mass scale there's no added charge distance; that's abstracted away in exchange for being able to cover the whole distance and resolving an attack before the enemy's next turn.

That seems like a reasonable approach in a mass-combat system (and definitely simpler). Did you ever work up your mass combat rules in a format you can release?

 

[Delta]

That one I'm still working on. It's kind of like my personal albatross.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I know the feeling, I think. Water, water, every where...

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Just a brief note to add that I've now tried this combat sequence in my C&C game (as well as my OD&D game), and it worked well, there, too. There are some interesting congruences with this approach and C&C:

• the C&C combat round is "approximately 10 seconds." (perfect match)
  
• stadard C&C rules specify a base move of 30' for humans and elves and a base move of 20' for dwarves and halfings. (Very close. These rates are what a typical heavy footman (i.e. wearing chainmail) of that race would move in my system, with the exception of elves, which are slightly faster under my system.)
  
• standard C&C rules allow a half-move with a melee attack, but not a full move with a melee attack (perfect match).
  
• A standard C&C charge is a double-move (perfect match).

 

[WSmith]

12 second rounds? Heretic! The one true round length is 10 seconds:
http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2007/03/realistic-time-in-d_17.html

I decided to stick to the 10 second round, (which I happened to vote for in C&C's design also.) Between PJ and Delta and their blogs, I like the feel of the combat round being that fast. I won't say it is more "realistic" (I hate that word for FRPGs) but I will say it has a more "real-time" feeling to it. With OD&D, you could pull this off.

Long ago we used something similar (with 6 second combat rounds) AD&D, but the problem was spells. Both Casting Times in segments and the spell duration took enough work to eventually scrap the house rules. With OD&D most of the longer duration spells are in turns, and intended for use outside of combat.

About the sequence, I just ran a few small battles myself. I think I like somewhere in between the two methods. While I favor the simple method much more, I like that different missile weapons have different rates of fire. I like the simpler form because movement is not as precise, and in dungeons with mostly 20x30 rooms or some such, generally doesn't present much of an issue.