Combat Stress - ideas?

[nvdoyle]

Working on setting up a game in a semi-alternate WW2, using slightly modified D20M rules. I need to model the stress and fear of modern combat - firearms, seeking cover, artillery, tanks, planes, the whole 9 yards. The character states are quite sufficient (shaken, cowering, panicked) but I'm trying to come up with a way to make PCs and NPCs test against the stress of combat, and pass...or fail...

The obvious one, a Will save, simply won't do. Why? Because combat-oriented N/PCs have some of the worst Will saves going. The 'Cool Under Fire' article from wizards.com is okay, but seems a bit...clunky. Has anyone used it yet? I've considered Sanity, but that's...maybe a little -too- harsh, and doesn't really model trying to hide/flee from dangerous opponents.

Any ideas?

 

[VirgilCaine]

The 'Cool Under Fire' article from wizards.com is okay, but seems a bit...clunky. Has anyone used it yet? I've considered Sanity, but that's...maybe a little -too- harsh, and doesn't really model trying to hide/flee from dangerous opponents.

The bovious solution is to make a compromise (combination) between Sanity and Cool under fire, or simplify Cool Under Fire.

 

[Krieg]

Godlike's D20 rules have a "cool" stat that is rolled up just like the core six (S, I, W, D, Con, Cha). Under stressful situations or in case of injury a "cool" check is made (D20+cool modifier).

OGL Horror also has a mechanic for fright effects that could be modified to work with little effort. A failed result = fight or flight which would work very well for your intended purpose. Instead of just cowering in fear, there is the possibility that the character will "lose it" & banzai charge instead.

 

[Dirigible]

Perhaps introduce a new save type, Courage, Bravery, Spheroids... one of the above.

 

[malladin]

I think I'd stick with Will, but provide other classes with talents, or use the feat list, to supplement the 'weaker willed' classes. One feat I could think of is one that lets you use For instead of Will for cool checks. In terms of Talents, I think perhaps one for Fast Heroes that builds up a decent sized modifier to multiple different causes of stress (eg: +4 bonus to stress under fire, +4 to stress whilst being stealth, etc).

I think this means that people can have their character not suffering from stress for not much cost, but allows concepts that can't deal with the stress. I also think that the two classes with Will save (smart and dedicated) actually suit being a bit cooler customers, in terms of flavouring the characters.

cheerio,

Ben

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

The obvious one, a Will save, simply won't do. Why? Because combat-oriented N/PCs have some of the worst Will saves going.

Any ideas?

Use a Will save with a special bonus equal to BAB. Fresh (low-level) soldiers are prone to break down while veterans can take a whole lot more.

 

[Vigilance]

Couple of points:

The idea that a veteran soldier should be immune to combat fatigue is a misnomer. The vast majority of soldiers who spend time in critical stress suffer from combat fatigue. Most forms of combat fatigue, however, make you BETTER able to handle the immediate survival situation.

Take the infamous "thousand yard stare". These soldiers are *better* at handling stressful situations because they are just numb. But this is a form of combat fatigue.

Any look at the suicide rate of soldiers will show you they are suffering from the constant stress, not giving into it.

So it depends on what you want. It sounds like you want a gritty campaign. I would just use Will saves for normal soldiers, but each time you failed a save to, say, run away under stress, you would get a +1 cumulative circumstance bonus.

However you would take a cumulative -1 on any skill check made when NOT under stress.

This models at least one form of combat fatigue, which is the thousand yard stare.

Post Traumatic Stress also makes you better able to deal with fear while it is ongoing, but cripples you when not under stress. Nightmares seen in PTS, it has been theorized, are a purposeful depriving of sleep, which is both dangerous, but lack of sleep also seems to inhibit fear.

So you are on a hair trigger, exhausted all the time, but it does help you.

This is the primary paradox of combat fatigue. In the short term it is a survival benefit.

Just the perspective of someone who has lived with it and done some research.

Chuck

 

[Pierce]

Use a Will save with a special bonus equal to BAB. Fresh (low-level) soldiers are prone to break down while veterans can take a whole lot more.

This may be a bit generalized - though workable. The issue I see with this type of mechanic is that it disregards the long-term effects of being in combat. If you want more realism, you'd want to model not only the new recruit's lack of experience (most likely through a Will Save-style mechanic) but also the effects of exposure over time. Perhaps a penalty the character accumulates over time which can be reduced by taking R&R. I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the Sanity rules in CoC, but I'm guessing they work along these lines.

My personal taste is to force ad hoc Will saves. We had a scenario where one party member was on a stake-out and decided to use his time to study an arcane (read: freaky) magic tome. In the dark. Alone. After being chased through the sewers for most of the day. I had him make a Will save - rather low DC, at that. He failed and was shaken until he left the area. This type of system may be more seat-of-the-pants but hey, that's my style. YMMV.

 

[Breakdaddy]

You might check out the combat rules from Blood & Guts: Modern Military. They have decent combat fatigue rules, along with crossfire, friendly fire, and a rule for the horrors of war. Some decent rules exist for mental breakdown, mental exhaustion, post-traumatic stress, and the thousand yard stare. Worth a look, I am using most of these myself and they work fine IMC.

 

[nvdoyle]

Thanks, everyone, some excellent ideas here. Sounds like I need to pick up Blood & Guts: Modern Military, to see if it'll integrate into what I want to do. I want a baseline of grittiness, but scaleable - which isn't too terribly hard to do. I'm still hesitant about the Will save, but it might be more of my own reticence, as it 'feels' wrong to have 'soldier' types more prone than others to suffer from combat stress...but then again, that's my 'feel'. I might be off altogether.

Noah