Combatants as Cover & Ref Saves

[Dr. Zoom]

Short answer: no.

Cover only applies if the cover affects the effect being used.

The characters in front of you do not give you actual cover from a Lightning Bolt since the area of effect of the Lightning Bolt is that entire area. It does not break up when it hits someone in front of you.

Ditto for Fireball.

If it were a bunch of arrows being fired at you, then yes, the cover would apply since the cover could result in actually stopping or deflecting a missile.

But, nothing here stops or deflects the Lightning Bolt. It covers the entire area.

From SRD: "For bursts, cones, cylinders, and emanating spells, the spell only affects areas, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a burst's point, a cone's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanating spell's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect."

There is a diagram in the PHB that illustrates what is and is not effected in line of effect.

PH, page 133, specifically says to apply the Reflex save against AoE spells and effects, like dragon breath or a Fireball spell. Thus, it should apply to a Lightning Bolt, too.

 

[KarinsDad]

PH, page 133, specifically says to apply the Reflex save against AoE spells and effects, like dragon breath or a Fireball spell. Thus, it should apply to a Lightning Bolt, too.

Maybe you are quoting this incorrectly. What does having a Reflex save have to do with a potential Cover bonus to a Reflex save?

 

[Stalker0]

PH, page 133, specifically says to apply the Reflex save against AoE spells and effects, like dragon breath or a Fireball spell. Thus, it should apply to a Lightning Bolt, too.

It does, but only if the cover is appropriate for stopping the spell. Page 150 of the PH says:

"An otherwise solid barier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect., Such an opening makes a 5-foot length of wall no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect (though the rest of the wall father from the hole can still block the spell).

The diagram on page. 149, shows that the people do not to any degree block the spell, therefore, they are not useful cover. The wall however, does provide some cover, and number 6 should get a bonus to reflex.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Maybe you are quoting this incorrectly. What does having a Reflex save have to do with a potential Cover bonus to a Reflex save?

I was referring to the section on page 133 of the PH in the Cover section entitled "Cover Reflex Save Bonus," in which it specifically says that the cover reflex save bonus applies to dragon breath and fireball spells, and to AoE spells "that originate or spread out from a point on the other side of the cover."

Stalker: Cover and line of effect are not the same thing. Cover does not block line of effect unless it is total cover, but the cover reflex save applies to a character who is partially covered from an AoE spell that originates from the other side of the cover.

 

[KarinsDad]

I was referring to the section on page 133 of the PH in the Cover section entitled "Cover Reflex Save Bonus," in which it specifically says that the cover reflex save bonus applies to dragon breath and fireball spells, and to AoE spells "that originate or spread out from a point on the other side of the cover."

I stand corrected.

That's the problem with not having the PHB at work.

But, this brings up some interesting questions:

How much cover do you give to the following targets?

A B
C D
E F
G H
W

Where W is the Wizard casting a 10 foot wide Lightning Bolt and ABCDEFGH are targets assuming a square grid system. The Wizard isn't really on the line between the squares (he is in the square to the left), but do you assume that he can cast from the line between the squares?

If so, does F have the same cover bonus as E?

In either case, what cover percentages do you make it for each target? Do you change the percentages based on if W is actually in the square illustrated, or on the grid line between the squares?

 

[doktorstick]

Would BDFH be hit? If the wizard cast a 10-ft. wide lightning bolt, 1/2 the square to the left of ACEG would be hit, ACEG would be fully hit, and 1/2 the square of BDFH would be hit. This assumes, of course, the blasts it totally vertical.

(I forget, off-hand, how much of the square must be affected for the target to be affected. We typically play 3/4 of the square.)

Cheers,
/ds

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I would give them all 1/2 cover, except for G and H of course. My reason is simple. Each of them is being covered by another in the square between the LB and themselves. I try not to get too bogged down with square/line problems on the grid. The grid is just a tool. In this situation, the wizard shoots a 10 foot wide LB and gets all the targets. All except the front rank get a +2 reflex save cover bonus.

 

[kreynolds]

Would BDFH be hit? If the wizard cast a 10-ft. wide lightning bolt, 1/2 the square to the left of ACEG would be hit, ACEG would be fully hit, and 1/2 the square of BDFH would be hit. This assumes, of course, the blasts it totally vertical.

All eight would be fully hit if you launch the 10-foot wide bolt properly. Only 4 will be hit if you launch it straight ahead.

(I forget, off-hand, how much of the square must be affected for the target to be affected. We typically play 3/4 of the square.)

More than half the square must be effected in order to affect the target. So, if you aim straight on at ACEG, then you're effectively blasting a 5-foot wide area with a 10-foot wide spell that will only effect a 5-foot wide area. You effective choose a corner of your square to launch the bolt from, in this case, the upper right corner of the square the wizard is standing in. This will fully effect all 8 targets.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

In KD's case, the wizard would pick an intersection of gridlines at one of the four corners of his square and that would be the middle of the 10' width of the lightning bolt. So he could get all of those people as you'd expect. Most area spells use an intersection of gridlines as a point of origin (a 5'-wide lightning bolt is an obvious exception).

 

[Broken Fang]

I would give no cover bonus...if feeling in a good mood I might if the characters in front decided to not even make a Reflex roll...take the brunt of the attack fully and put themselves in harms way...then maybe I'd give the others some cover. Probably not....to complicated.