Combatants as Cover & Ref Saves

[Stalker0]

I guess everyone ignored my previous post. The diagrams about burst in the ph, shows that people don't block or interfere with burst spells in any way, meaning they provide no cover.

 

[Stalker0]

I guess everyone ignored my previous post. The diagrams about burst in the ph, shows that people don't block or interfere with burst spells in any way, meaning they provide no cover.

 

[kreynolds]

I guess everyone ignored my previous post.

Yeah, I kinda got that feeling too.

 

[KarinsDad]

I guess everyone ignored my previous post. The diagrams about burst in the ph, shows that people don't block or interfere with burst spells in any way, meaning they provide no cover.

I ignored it since the text on cover supercedes the diagram drawing. Even if there is example text for the diagram that does not indicate cover bonuses to the reflex saves, the information on page 133 takes precedence.

 

[kreynolds]

I ignored it since the text on cover supercedes the diagram drawing. Even if there is example text for the diagram that does not indicate cover bonuses to the reflex saves, the information on page 133 takes precedence.

I think I see what he was saying, and I have to agree. If a 1-foot gap exists in a square, then the spell effect fully passes through that square. Unless your character is a 5 x 5 x 5 foot cube, he ain't blocking fireball or lightning bolt, and he sure as heck isn't granting you any cover from either of those spells at all. Neither spell would have any difficult flowing through or around someone's square to engulf you.

 

[Umbran]

I guess everyone ignored my previous post. The diagrams about burst in the ph, shows that people don't block or interfere with burst spells in any way, meaning they provide no cover.

Check that diagram again. You'll notice that the burst is centered so that nobody is blocking anyone else from the center of the burst. Nobody is "behind" anyone else. Your reference therefore doesn't speak to the problem in question.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I guess everyone ignored my previous post. The diagrams about burst in the ph, shows that people don't block or interfere with burst spells in any way, meaning they provide no cover.

You will notice that I did answer your post. The diagram on page 149 is not trying to illustrate cover or cover reflex save bonuses. I agree that #6 might get some degree of cover, but #2 and #3 would not. If #3 was one square lower, #2 would have some degree of cover. The shaded area only shows who is affected, not who gets cover.

 

[kreynolds]

Looks like you people play a lot of gelatinous cubes then.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I think I see what he was saying, and I have to agree. If a 1-foot gap exists in a square, then the spell effect fully passes through that square. Unless your character is a 5 x 5 x 5 foot cube, he ain't blocking fireball or lightning bolt, and he sure as heck isn't granting you any cover from either of those spells at all. Neither spell would have any difficult flowing through or around someone's square to engulf you.

I see what he is saying, too, but that is line of effect, not area of effect. Line of effect is necessary to target a spell, like fireball. LB needs no line of effect, essentially, because it starts at the caster's fingertips. If the LB goes thru a 1 foot hole in a wall behind which you stand, you will be affected, but you will also be entitled to a cover bonus to your reflex saving throw.

 

[kreynolds]

I see what he is saying, too, but that is line of effect, not area of effect.

You keep saying this, but I don't think it universally applies.

Line of effect is necessary to target a spell, like fireball.

Correct.

LB needs no line of effect, essentially, because it starts at the caster's fingertips.

Incorrect. If you do not have line of effect, you can't hit your target with a lightning bolt. An interposing barrier will block line of effect, thus it will block your lightning bolt. A wall with a 1-foot hole in it won't block a thing. The lightning bolt would streak right through it, fully affecting the space on the other side.

A cover bonus makes no sense in this situation. You don't aim the spread or area effect of a fireball or lighning bolt like you do with an arrow. If the spread or area effect gets into your square, you're screwed.