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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Come and (Don't) Get It?
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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 5123109" data-attributes="member: 78"><p>Characters reliant on self heals and MC feat dailies might be hesitant regarding Come and Get It, since they tend to benefit less from heavily concentrating fire on the defender. In that case, something with a defensive emphasis might be more useful. Trip Up seems pretty good for polearm gambit types.</p><p></p><p>I'd argue that fighter defending in full/large groups is built around the ability to suck in enemies, mark them all, and get OA bonuses if they try to move away. That's why fighters get the exact same power as Come and Get It again at level 23, only with straightforward upgrades. When the class ability marks everyone you attack, the design is putting a premium on a power that lets you attack multiple guys.</p><p></p><p>I think that Call of Challenge (Paladin U2, DP) is the closest thing to Come and Get It. It marks everything in a close burst 3. There's no attack and forced movement, but it is a utility power. Since Sanction can punish multiple times per round, its group control seems equivalent despite the lack of forced movement - Combat Challenge is only once per round, so one shift/attack frees the other enemies shift+charge away without additional attacks. Generally, most monsters will be forced to move and attack you, or take automatic damage.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I think that defenders without a way to handle groups like Come and Get It or Call of Challenge have problems - only defending against 1 guy isn't very helpful in 5 on 5. Why assume that the enemies and/or environment are going to cooperate with your plan? If you're not fighting in doorways and narrow halls, then I think a defender needs a sort of area control. Fighters have CaGI. Paladins have a number sanctioning bursts, and can heal allies damaged by monsters that escape their net, Warden powers often create zones of anti-shifting or difficult terrain, Battleminds have Lightning Rush, and swordmages tend to mark 1, and then melee someone else. Defenders need a bigger 'space' on the battlefield.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Victim, post: 5123109, member: 78"] Characters reliant on self heals and MC feat dailies might be hesitant regarding Come and Get It, since they tend to benefit less from heavily concentrating fire on the defender. In that case, something with a defensive emphasis might be more useful. Trip Up seems pretty good for polearm gambit types. I'd argue that fighter defending in full/large groups is built around the ability to suck in enemies, mark them all, and get OA bonuses if they try to move away. That's why fighters get the exact same power as Come and Get It again at level 23, only with straightforward upgrades. When the class ability marks everyone you attack, the design is putting a premium on a power that lets you attack multiple guys. I think that Call of Challenge (Paladin U2, DP) is the closest thing to Come and Get It. It marks everything in a close burst 3. There's no attack and forced movement, but it is a utility power. Since Sanction can punish multiple times per round, its group control seems equivalent despite the lack of forced movement - Combat Challenge is only once per round, so one shift/attack frees the other enemies shift+charge away without additional attacks. Generally, most monsters will be forced to move and attack you, or take automatic damage. Personally, I think that defenders without a way to handle groups like Come and Get It or Call of Challenge have problems - only defending against 1 guy isn't very helpful in 5 on 5. Why assume that the enemies and/or environment are going to cooperate with your plan? If you're not fighting in doorways and narrow halls, then I think a defender needs a sort of area control. Fighters have CaGI. Paladins have a number sanctioning bursts, and can heal allies damaged by monsters that escape their net, Warden powers often create zones of anti-shifting or difficult terrain, Battleminds have Lightning Rush, and swordmages tend to mark 1, and then melee someone else. Defenders need a bigger 'space' on the battlefield. [/QUOTE]
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Come and (Don't) Get It?
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