Come and (Don't) Get It?

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Can you use Come and Get it to pull unconscious targets? I'm thinking, why yes you can, by the RAW, but, wonky if you do it.

Where do you people stand?

Oh, and does inflicting damage on an unconscious target revive it? Or simply make it a rag-doll?

 

[beverson]

I wouldn't allow it, only because it's a Martial power, which in my game means the character is taunting them in some fashion or otherwise goading them to approach. But that's me.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

I hear ya on the Martial aspect, but there's always, the gods. The only feasible thing I can think of is that the targets are not "out cold" but extremely dazed, and they kind of just crawl their way over there with their pride on the line.

Do you allow "Inspiring Word" for unconscious targets? Given that its martial?

 

[corman]

Inflicting damage on an unconscious target does not revive them, that's for sure.

Sleeping creatures - as in normal slumber, are automatically awakened by damage.

Creatures affected by a magical Sleep effect are knocked unconscious and rendered helpless. They do NOT wake up when damaged, unless the power specifically states this.

For the Come and Get It power, I wouldn't allow it, as a DM. The bad guys are unconscious you say (and therefore I assume they are not 'sleeping normally'). While unconscious and helpless, you cannot take actions, grant CA, have a -5 to all defenses, and more. That's per the specific rules regarding Helpless and Unconscious status effects. No getting up from prone, no move actions, no free actions, nothing. Ergo you don't wander over to the fighter to be slaughtered - the lazy fighter has to walk over and do his own slaughtering.

Inspiring Word, used on an unconscious ally, does work, because the general rule on healing unconscious charactes applies, and nothing is specifically given in any of the three areas (the power, unconscious, helpless) that would preclude it.

 

[Amaroq]

The only feasible thing I can think of is that the targets are not "out cold" but extremely dazed, and they kind of just crawl their way over there with their pride on the line.

We've actually made that explicitly the case for our game: 0 hit points = helpless, but not unconscious - think, slumped over against the wall, unable even to stand on your own.

That gives us some verisimilitude when "Inspiring Word" is used to bring a by-RAW-unconscious character back to positive hit points.

I'd still probably exempt them from "Come and Get It", though, on the grounds that they can't move of their own accord .. but I doubt my players would care, as we don't tend to see NPC's bringing foes back from 0 hit points very often, if at all.

 

[Dan'L]

While I know that it has been given errata so that it invokes a "pull," I look to the original wording of "must shift" to inform me that the intent of the power must be that the target could move itself. Since an unconscious creature cannot move or shift, I would say that the RAI is "no."

-Dan'L

 

[KarinsDad]

Can you use Come and Get it to pull unconscious targets? I'm thinking, why yes you can, by the RAW, but, wonky if you do it.

My opinion is that Come and Get It is wonky to begin with.

The very fact that a martial power can pull foes in from 15 feet away with the foes having no say in it and no save is wonky.

It's the equivalent of Martial Domination with no save.

Exactly why would Orcus want to walk the 10 feet, just to get smacked by a sword??? But a 7th level Fighter can move Orcus 10 feet without any sort of roll (not that this is necessarily a good idea).

What about foes that do not understand the fighter's language? Are they taunted so that they cannot resist? As you state, how about unconcious foes? How about Grabbed foes?

Monster: "You know, I can't seem to physically break out of this Grab."
PC: "Come and Get It"
Monster: "Hey, thanks for pulling me out of that Grab."


Magical Compulsion to pull someone? Fine (with a save).
Magical Telekinesis to pull someone? Fine (even potentially without a save)

Unresistable Martial Taunt? WT? It breaks verisimilitude for me and I think that forced movement without a dice roll is unbalanced as well.

 

[interwyrm]

You misunderstand. The fighter actually uses his martial prowess to warp space such that all squares within 15 ft are superimposed upon each other. No movement takes place. It's all physics.

 

[Camelot]

How did the creatures become unconscious? Usually when monsters are dropped to 0, I just remove them from the mat. If they're sleeping, I'd say they wake up, stand up, and move over to the fighter as normal. If they've been put to sleep by the wizard, I'd only allow it if it was the player's last chance to succeed.

If a character is unconscious because they are sleeping, they wake up if they take damage. If a character is unconscious from a magical effect until they save, then the damage does not wake them. If a character is unconscious because they have dropped to 0 hit points, they remain unconscious because that's how they got their in the first place. Or sometimes when you are dropped to 0 you aren't "unconscious" but rather incapacitated. However you want to roleplay it.

 

[bganon]

Hmmm, this a case for which the original wording might have been better. In that case it was the targets making a shift (presumably as a free action), and since unconscious creatures can't take actions there's no problem.