Come and (Don't) Get It?

[Starfox]

RAW, this is very close to a non-issue. Monsters are not expected to go unconscious - they are simply defeated and out of the game. Sure players can beat monsters unconscious and sleep can render them so too, but these are special cases - the basic assumption is that a monster that is out is out. This makes me interpret RAI as not affecting the unconscious - simply because they are not supposed to be on the battlemat at all any longer.

 

[KarinsDad]

Pff, it definitely can make sense. If there's one guy who keeps hounding anyone who comes near him, stopping your gang of villainy from being able to effectively bring its full force to bear, it makes sense that you'd go "Know what? We're taking him out", and have everyone nearby launch at him. That he's wrapped in heavier armor just means that you obviously need more people to take and keep him down. Come & Get It can easily be flavored as the fighter anticipating that dogpile and effectively turning it to the fighter's own advantage.

Except it is not anticipation. It is instigation.


Orcus with an Int of 25 cannot make a plan to attack the Wizard and only the Wizard until he is dead without the Fighter warping time and space.

It's amazing how many people come up with the most off the wall rationalizations for how powers work.

This is forced movement without a save and without a die roll and without an explanation of how someone's sword creates a living black hole.

It's totally nonsensical.

If it's a taunt of some sort, then the target should have a way to resist it. If it's an anticipation of a dogpile, then some of the targets should be able to make other desisions than getting in on the dogpile.

It's magic under the guise of mundane.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Except it is not anticipation. It is instigation.


Orcus with an Int of 25 cannot make a plan to attack the Wizard and only the Wizard until he is dead without the Fighter warping time and space.

It's amazing how many people come up with the most off the wall rationalizations for how powers work.

This is forced movement without a save and without a die roll and without an explanation of how someone's sword creates a living black hole.

It's totally nonsensical.

If it's a taunt of some sort, then the target should have a way to resist it. If it's an anticipation of a dogpile, then some of the targets should be able to make other desisions than getting in on the dogpile.

It's magic under the guise of mundane.

Die roll is absolutely irrelevant in this matter. Would you like the ability really that much better for you if there was an attack vs Will? If so, just assume there is an attack vs will, but with a +50 bonus and a 1 is not a failure.

 

[Styracosaurus]

It's magic under the guise of mundane.

I agree with this statement and it doesn't bother me a bit. I like the fighter and the ability in question.
All of the classes in 4e practice some form of "magic." This is built into the setting just as much as hit points, AC, etc.....

 

[Camelot]

I find it bothering that any other characters can get away with anything mechanically and attribute it to magic, but martial characters have to fit into our understanding of the real world in what they do.

I treat the martial power source as a kind of magic too, but one of amazing physical and mental prowess. Part of this mental prowess includes an extremely compulsive personality. This means that the fighter can convince even the genius Orcus to abandon strategy, give in to his rage, and attack move towards the fighter.

Someone mentioned that you can use the power to pull a monster out of a grab, and that doesn't make sense. However, the monster must be grabbed by your ally, and it is a free action to end a grab, so your ally just ends the grab and lets the monster rush at the fighter!

 

[Starfox]

If you read "martial" as "cinematic" things become easier to accept. How does the fighter gather all the enemies around? Well, that's easy - it says so in the script. Its his schtick, just as it is the Rogue''s schtick to do more damage with a knife than the fighter with a greatsword, or the swordmage's schtick to teleport.

Schick in this sense is not limited to a magical power or skill, it is a recurring trope that applies to the character.

What 4E tries to do is to take these narrative schticks and put them in a framework robust enough to be a tactical game. This is a risky tactic for a game; it is likely to alienate both those who like tactical games (and require verisimilitude) and those who like narrative combat (who think its too rules-heavy and structured).

 

[Saeviomagy]

Orcus with an Int of 25 cannot make a plan to attack the Wizard and only the Wizard until he is dead without the Fighter warping time and space.

So the wizard plays dead on the fighter's cue, the fighter taunts, done, easy.

It's amazing how many people come up with the most off the wall rationalizations for how powers won't work.

 

[KarinsDad]

So the wizard plays dead on the fighter's cue, the fighter taunts, done, easy.

Plays dead standing up and without being prone.

It's amazing how many people come up with the most off the wall rationalizations for how powers won't work.

Yes, amazing.

"The power says he can do it, so he can do it. It makes total sense. LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA. I can't hear you."

Rationalizations are amazing.

 

[Garthanos]

Plays dead standing up and without being prone

"Mechanically Prone" is being prone in such a way that it limits you..
If you werent "knocked that way" and the bad guy immediately quits threatening you the character would not need to be "mechanically prone"

Rationalizations are amazing.... as is imagination.

Bloodied doesn't mean blood is involved. And just because my barbarian gets lots of little wounds from hit point loss doesnt mean he has had enough to be "mechanically bloodied"

Powers dont even need to happen in ways that directly make them an action of the hero... Orcus might be distracted by something else entirely like noticing the Fighter is a descendant of someone who destroyed him in some other incarnation.

 

[FireLance]

Personally speaking, ever since WotC killed ki as a power source, I've simply folded it into martial. So, in my campaigns, some of the more exotic martial exploits are actually ki-powered martial arts maneuvers. Come and get it is the fighter blurring into rapid motion and dragging his opponents into a tight circle, or pulling them towards him with a ribbon/whip/chain, or running in a circle around them and pushing them towards the center. All of these would work on opponents who are unconscious, stunned, or otherwise unable to move on their own power.