Come and (Don't) Get It?

[Wormwood]

You misunderstand. The fighter actually uses his martial prowess to warp space such that all squares within 15 ft are superimposed upon each other. No movement takes place. It's all physics.

Perhaps I've played a Warlord too long---thus warping my brain into some fantastic rationalizations of the scope of the Martial power source---but I've always fluffed Come And Get It as:

You are not forcing your opponent's movement. Rather, your battle instincts have been so keenly honed that you can anticipate when your opponent(s) will make a rallying charge. By activating this power, you simply anticipate their ill-timed movement and turn it to your advantage.

edit: That said, I agree that *RAI* grants unconscious targets immunity.

 

[KarinsDad]

but I've always fluffed Come And Get It as:

You are not forcing your opponent's movement. Rather, your battle instincts have been so keenly honed that you can anticipate when your opponent(s) will make a rallying charge. By activating this power, you simply anticipate their ill-timed movement and turn it to your advantage.

Except that it is rare that it is advantageous for the foes to make a rallying charge against the Plate and Shield heavily protected Fighter. Especially when one monster has the Wizard on the ropes and another monster has the Cleric on the ropes. Why exactly is it in the monster's best interest to help the PCs at that time???

That's overstretching, even for fluff.

 

[eamon]

Hmmm, this a case for which the original wording might have been better. In that case it was the targets making a shift (presumably as a free action), and since unconscious creatures can't take actions there's no problem.

The original wording had issues whereby said shift might trigger other things (like another fighter's CC, say). However, I do agree it was the more reasonable approach.


The best solution:

You misunderstand. The fighter actually uses his martial prowess to warp space such that all squares within 15 ft are superimposed upon each other. No movement takes place. It's all physics.

Basically, in 4e, all power sources are created equal. You've got martial healing, martial action-at-a-distance, (not to mention marks that work at a distance), and probably more weird things. Clearly, what 4e calls "martial" isn't what we would call "non magical". That may not be believable - but it is simple.

Frankly, if you're going to allow inspiring word, fighter marks without an adjacent fighter, and prone gelatinous cubes, Come and Get It isn't a biggie.

 

[Journeymanmage]

I hear ya on the Martial aspect, but there's always, the gods. ....

Do you allow "Inspiring Word" for unconscious targets? Given that its martial?

Orc or Half-orc Warlord: Inspiring Word: "Get up you lazy sack of ----! (kicks fallen companion in the ribs). There's still fighting to do!!" (or pauses to throw a rock at companions head).

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Do you allow "Inspiring Word" for unconscious targets? Given that its martial?

Orc or Half-orc Warlord: Inspiring Word: "Get up you lazy sack of ----! (kicks fallen companion in the ribs). There's still fighting to do!!" (or pauses to throw a rock at companions head).

Journeymanmage beat me to it, but yeah...Warlords aren't sissy little Bards that sing you a pretty song. They're drill sergeants. Drill sergeants that'll tear you a new one if you fall asleep on the job. Also, for those of you who've seen Gurren Lagann, I always imagine it as a "Let's see you grit those teeth!" moment.

As for the main topic though... Basically, Come and Get It is one of those powers that it might not be good to look too closely at. Just as we don't look too closely at things like Web or Healing Strike, and say "they just work", sometimes it's best to just say "hey, it works" and leave it at that. If you start requiring extensive logic and reasoning for every single power in the game, then things will start to fall apart. Sometimes you just gotta sit back and let something work, even if it requires a tad bit of hand waving, and just enjoy the game.

To me, this power is simply the in game manifestation of something that I've seen in 100 action movies, where all of the enemies dogpile onto one of the good guys. They usually rush him all at once, and then in a feat of heroic strength or Martial Arts badassery he knocks them all back/beats them up (see: any Jackie Chan movie). As another poster stated, sometimes this power might just be a representation of the bad guys doing this on their own, or perhaps it's a representation of the Fighter feigning weakness and throwing out a taunt.

Whatever the reason though, it's logic isn't that much more of a stretch than the ability of a naked man in the middle of a completely featureless room dodging a Wizard's Fire Burst (essentially a big 25' wide fireball, also a level 7 encounter power). And yes, I'm aware that you could simply say "Well, the Wizard failed in casting the spell and it fizzled" or some such nonsense, but if it also hit another monster in the room then obviously the spell went off. In which case, what allowed him to dodge? There's no armor, no shield, no cover, nowhere to hide...we just say "You missed", for the sake of preserving the games internal rules, rather than trying to force external logic on it.

 

[frankthedm]

I wouldn't allow it, only because it's a Martial power, which in my game means the character is taunting them in some fashion or otherwise goading them to approach. But that's me.

That is the way the power even words itself, though I think the ability is more palatable as a Vacuum whirlwind attack.

 

[Mallus]

Can you use Come and Get it to pull unconscious targets? I'm thinking, why yes you can, by the RAW, but, wonky if you do it.

Where do you people stand?

I'd try to find some (barely, remotely) plausible explanation explanation for how the unconscious body moved. For instance, if an ally were adjacent to the target I'd justify CaGI as them grabbing the body and heaving it in your general direction.

If I can find a way to describe a power's effect, I do. Heck, that's part of the challenge, and fun, of DM'ing 4e: matching the mechanics to the game's fiction. If I absolutely can't make sense out of an action, I'll ask the player not to use the power. And they would, because that's how my group rolls.

 

[Squizzle]

Except that it is rare that it is advantageous for the foes to make a rallying charge against the Plate and Shield heavily protected Fighter. Especially when one monster has the Wizard on the ropes and another monster has the Cleric on the ropes. Why exactly is it in the monster's best interest to help the PCs at that time???

That's overstretching, even for fluff.

Pff, it definitely can make sense. If there's one guy who keeps hounding anyone who comes near him, stopping your gang of villainy from being able to effectively bring its full force to bear, it makes sense that you'd go "Know what? We're taking him out", and have everyone nearby launch at him. That he's wrapped in heavier armor just means that you obviously need more people to take and keep him down. Come & Get It can easily be flavored as the fighter anticipating that dogpile and effectively turning it to the fighter's own advantage.

 

[UltimaGabe]

You misunderstand. The fighter actually uses his martial prowess to warp space such that all squares within 15 ft are superimposed upon each other. No movement takes place. It's all physics.

To be perfectly honest, that's how I've always envisioned the power. I guess that was aided by the fact the first time I used that power, it was in the final battle of a low-level game, and it gave my character the perfect amount of bad-assery.

 

[Henry]

I've always adjudicated it with the Rule of Common Sense. If an unconscious creature can't take any actions, and something's basic premise is to goad them into or forcing them to take actions, free or otherwise, then they aren't taking that action -- period. If you had a power that says "every ally within 20 squares makes a basic attack" on your turn, are you giving the petrified PC an extra attack, too?