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Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XII: Rogues)
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8819582" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>With the way 5e is designed, yes. Really, it applies to 3e as well; the Bard sucks as a caster unless you bolt on the Sublime Chord PrC...which very specifically gets a weirdo magic progression allowing a Bard to have 9th level spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, "spell" means two different things in 4e: class powers for arcane classes, and rituals. 4e Bards are <em>excellent</em> Ritual Casters, with a suite of Bard-only rituals to boot. It's...difficult to make direct comparisons between powers and spells proper because they <em>are</em> similar, but they have enough fundamental but subtle differences to make it very complicated.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And I thought that was silly back then, too. Keep in mind, in 3e, the Warlock was NOT a spellcaster of any kind, yet it makes a great deal of sense that it is one in 5e. The "original" version is not always the best version.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I prefer "a bit of magic" to be something that isn't Vancian spellcasting. Indeed, that is exactly where I think non-spellcasting supernatural power shines brightest.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, sure, some are pretty neat. I haven't closely looked at the soulknife (no phone, not <em>soup knife</em>...) so I can't comment on that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I had understood that to be CleverKnickName's point, intending to completely <em>replace</em> the Bard class with a Rogue subclass, hence the phrasing: "And to think: some folks<em> still think </em>that the bard shouldn't be a subclass of Rogue." Certainly I can guarantee it's the intent of more than one poster on here, e.g. demoting Warlock to being a <em>Cleric subclass.</em> Class reductionism is a lamentably common interest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8819582, member: 6790260"] With the way 5e is designed, yes. Really, it applies to 3e as well; the Bard sucks as a caster unless you bolt on the Sublime Chord PrC...which very specifically gets a weirdo magic progression allowing a Bard to have 9th level spells. Well, "spell" means two different things in 4e: class powers for arcane classes, and rituals. 4e Bards are [I]excellent[/I] Ritual Casters, with a suite of Bard-only rituals to boot. It's...difficult to make direct comparisons between powers and spells proper because they [I]are[/I] similar, but they have enough fundamental but subtle differences to make it very complicated. And I thought that was silly back then, too. Keep in mind, in 3e, the Warlock was NOT a spellcaster of any kind, yet it makes a great deal of sense that it is one in 5e. The "original" version is not always the best version. I prefer "a bit of magic" to be something that isn't Vancian spellcasting. Indeed, that is exactly where I think non-spellcasting supernatural power shines brightest. Oh, sure, some are pretty neat. I haven't closely looked at the soulknife (no phone, not [I]soup knife[/I]...) so I can't comment on that. I had understood that to be CleverKnickName's point, intending to completely [I]replace[/I] the Bard class with a Rogue subclass, hence the phrasing: "And to think: some folks[I] still think [/I]that the bard shouldn't be a subclass of Rogue." Certainly I can guarantee it's the intent of more than one poster on here, e.g. demoting Warlock to being a [I]Cleric subclass.[/I] Class reductionism is a lamentably common interest. [/QUOTE]
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