D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XII: Rogues)

Undrave

Hero
As usual, let’s not clog the survivor thread with too much discussion.

The Rogue is probably the most interesting class I’ve yet to get a chance to play. I ALMOST played a Mastermind but things in the game didn’t go as planned and I ended up with a different character. I think it’s really cool that it’s a fully at-will class if you go in the proper subclasses.

Because of that, I REALLY don’t want the Arcane Trickster to win this. Adding spell slots to one of the few purely martial classes isn’t worth winning this contest! NO WIZARDS!

And since the Gloom Stalker just won the Ranger survivor thread, I’d rather anything but the Scout win. We already got the Rogue-ish Ranger, we don’t need the Ranger-ish Rogue to compete with it.

And the Assassin is just bad.

I honestly expect the Swashbuckler to win it.
 

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OB1

Jedi Master
I'm sure the Swashbuckler will win, everyone loves Han Solo! I think it's fine, top 3-4 for sure, but I'd put the Thief and the Arcane Trickster ahead of it. Maybe the mastermind.

Don't get your hate on the Arcane Trickster. It's a classic archetype done very well. Mix with a Changeling and you've got a perfect Loki, for example. If the Wizard part freaks you out too much, it's easy enough to take away the spellbook and refluff it as a sorcerer (which, really, it should be). Easily one of the best conceived sub-classes in the game.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Arcane Trickster is excellent. I’ll never understand some folks hate of anything with spell slots. It’s very much not a wizard. I wish it were more wizard like, with prepared spells and the ability to learn more spells in adventure.

Assassin has always disappointed me, but I love the concept so much I still don’t want to downvote it. But IMO it’s bad that the D&D assassin has always been the “guild assassin” of some modern fantasy, and not the religious or politically motivated assassin of history. More Altair or even Ezio Auditore and less creepy poisoner. At least the base class makes them competent combatants, but tbh the Inqusitive is a better assassin IMO than the Assassin.

The Swashbuckler is a favorite for good reason, and I’m thrilled that the soul knife died first, and so quickly. Now let’s get rid of the phantom, and we can then choose between the worthwhile rogue archetypes!
 

Undrave

Hero
I'm sure the Swashbuckler will win, everyone loves Han Solo! I think it's fine, top 3-4 for sure, but I'd put the Thief and the Arcane Trickster ahead of it. Maybe the mastermind.

Don't get your hate on the Arcane Trickster. It's a classic archetype done very well. Mix with a Changeling and you've got a perfect Loki, for example. If the Wizard part freaks you out too much, it's easy enough to take away the spellbook and refluff it as a sorcerer (which, really, it should be). Easily one of the best conceived sub-classes in the game.
It’s not so much that I hate it, just that I don’t think a ‘MC-like’ subclass should be used as the representative of an entire class.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I‘m really wanting the Thief to win, just so that we get a roguish rogue - and classic Thief deserves love.
I’d be okay with Mastermind or Swashbuckler

And since the Gloom Stalker just won the Ranger survivor thread, I’d rather anything but the Scout win. We already got the Rogue-ish Ranger, we don’t need the Ranger-ish Rogue to compete with it.
.
yeah I personally think that Scout is a better ranger than most of the Ranger subclasses :)

and I agree with Mordo about Arcane Trickster - the World has too many scorcerers*

* a scorcerer is a wizard with no hat
 


DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Up front, it looks fine, like you can be batman or a ninja with the spells representing gear but... the way the spells actually work in play means it's not. You're really just a bard but bad.
If you look at it like that, no wonder you don't like it.

It isn't supposed to be batman or a ninja, it is the simple Mage/Thief multiclass like EK is the Fighter/Mage multiclass.

IME that is all it was ever meant to be and it fits that well enough (not saying it couldn't be better, though).

yeah I personally think that Scout is a better ranger than most of the Ranger subclasses :)
Sadly, it really is... Probably why it is one of my top Rogue subclasses.

The Swashbuckler is a favorite for good reason, and I’m thrilled that the soul knife died first, and so quickly. Now let’s get rid of the phantom, and we can then choose between the worthwhile rogue archetypes!
Agreed. Soul Knife is my first one to kill and then Phantom will be second. After that, I have my favorites but all the rest work to one degree or another for me.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
it is the simple Mage/Thief multiclass like EK is the Fighter/Mage multiclass.
And neither are good at that.

There's no actual blend of the two concepts, it's just adding bland spellcasting with a dumb restriction that betrays how little thought was put into them.

Rogues are sneaky, so they get illusions and enchantment. Which ones? Doesn't matter

Fighters are violent and also tanks even though we took away all tank abilities but the Sentinel feat. Evocation and Abjuration. Figure something out.
 


RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph
I think the Rogue subclasses are already very flavorful and balanced (even the much-maligned Arcane Trickster). Nevertheless, there are a couple of homebrews I really like:
  • Caitlin Bradbury's Roguish Archetype: The Clover is a luck-based rogue that looks really interesting. I haven't had the chance to try one yet, but I think it'll fit really well with urban, interaction-heavy campaigns where a gambler character would fit. I would like the Risky Play feature to have non-combat utility, but I think it would be hard to balance that.
  • TheForsakenEvil's Occult Agent is basically the character you play in Dishonored, an assassin who is bent on revenge for being framed, and uses stealth, weapons, and supernatural powers to achieve it. I haven't played the video game, but I wouldn't mind test-driving the character in a D&D game prior to console play!
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
And neither are good at that.

There's no actual blend of the two concepts, it's just adding bland spellcasting with a dumb restriction that betrays how little thought was put into them.

Rogues are sneaky, so they get illusions and enchantment. Which ones? Doesn't matter

Fighters are violent and also tanks even though we took away all tank abilities but the Sentinel feat. Evocation and Abjuration. Figure something out.
Your opinion of course but mine is they are fine at doing it. It is better if you remove the "dumb" restriction about what spells are allowed, but otherwise they work well for me.

Just play a Ranger and take the Scout subclass!
LOL it would be the best option... ;)
 

RoughCoronet0

Dragon Lover
I’ll admit that the base class of Rogues doesn’t interest me all that much, but a few of the subclasses have caught my interest. I’ve played a Scout Rogue and enjoyed it, but always prefer the Ranger if I want to play an stealthy outdoor huntsman. Phantom Rogue is my favorite subclass though (I seem to enjoy subclasses themed around ghosts and undead). I am also a fan of the Soulknife (and any of the Psionic subclasses really. I wish their were more of them).
 

Undrave

Hero
The Swashbuckler is a favorite for good reason, and I’m thrilled that the soul knife died first, and so quickly. Now let’s get rid of the phantom, and we can then choose between the worthwhile rogue archetypes!
I think the Phantom might have been more interesting if it had been all about those soul token things. Get the ability to gather them at level 3, and almost everything Phantom is fueled by spending them. Makes for a pretty dark character too as you need to actively take lives to fuel your powers…
There's no actual blend of the two concepts, it's just adding bland spellcasting with a dumb restriction that betrays how little thought was put into them.
The Mage Hand Ledgermain thing is pretty nifty though. It feels like a proper mix of magical and thievery skill. I’m not a fan of ‘magic on one hand, sword in the other’, like the Eldtrich Knight.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
The Mage Hand Ledgermain thing is pretty nifty though. It feels like a proper mix of magical and thievery skill. I’m not a fan of ‘magic on one hand, sword in the other’, like the Eldtrich Knight.
Ranged Ledgerdemain is pretty cool, even if (and this isn't a 5e thing, it's historical at least back to 3e), it feels like a thing Mage Hand or TK should do anyway.

I agree on the Eldritch Knight. A mage night should be doing cutting air attacks and charging their weaponry with lightning while their 'offhand' magic should be battlefield control like pushes and knockdowns, or body enhancement.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
I agree on the Eldritch Knight. A mage night should be doing cutting air attacks and charging their weaponry with lightning while their 'offhand' magic should be battlefield control like pushes and knockdowns, or body enhancement.
Think you just described the Psi-Knight!
 





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