D&D 3E/3.5 Complaining about 3.5 weapon size rules

[DemonAtheist]

I only read the first page of this thread, sorry if I am repeating something.

the reason weapon sizing makes sense is because different weapons are proportioned differently. In mathematical terms: great swords, b4stard swords, long swords, short swords, and daggers are NOT similar. NOT!!

a small weapon has the same proportions as a medium weapon, but it is (wait for it...) smaller. Daggers are not small short swords.

its geometry!

 

[Saeviomagy]

By the 3.5 rules, a dagger scaled up two size categories would take a -4 inappropriate size penalty; the same penalty (though for a different reason) as throwing a greatsword ten feet as an improvised thrown weapon.

Unfortunately though, he could throw a large dagger at a -2 penalty, half the penalty for throwing a shortsword.

Of course this is still better than 3.0's "well, I guess the GM can make up some rules then" approach.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unfortunately though, he could throw a large dagger at a -2 penalty, half the penalty for throwing a shortsword.

Certainly. But it would still suffer that penalty in melee, and could not benefit from Weapon Finesse; neither of those disadvantages apply to the shortsword.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Certainly. But it would still suffer that penalty in melee, and could not benefit from Weapon Finesse; neither of those disadvantages apply to the shortsword.

-Hyp.

Yeah, but he couldn't use a shortsword in melee without a -4 EITHER.

So by using a large dagger, he's reduced his melee penalties by 2 AND given himself a ranged attack to boot.

It's way better than the old system, but it's still got holes.

 

[rangerjohn]

Exactly. He is proficient in 'rapier', and can thus wield the Medium rapier (with two hands) and the Small rapier (with one hand).

Just as the wizard, proficient in 'dagger', can wield the Tiny dagger (as a light weapon) and the Large dagger (with two hands).



By the 3E rules? Sure.

By the 3.5 rules, a dagger scaled up two size categories would take a -4 inappropriate size penalty; the same penalty (though for a different reason) as throwing a greatsword ten feet as an improvised thrown weapon.

-Hyp.

But he could throw the dagger further than 10'. Admittedly at an increased penalty.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But he could throw the dagger further than 10'. Admittedly at an increased penalty.

Just like the greatsword.

Improvised thrown weapons have a range increment of 10 feet.

You can throw a greatsword 50 feet at a -14 penalty.

-Hyp.

 

[Storyteller01]

So why go through all the math (4.0 is going to need to be sold with a primer on probability calculus!!)? Use the same approach for racial size that 3.0 used for weapon sizes.


ie: A character cannot use a weapon two size catagories larger than itself (so a human cannot use a huge weapon).

A character cannot use a weapon originally created to accomadate a creature two sizes greater than itself (so a human cannot use a weapon designed for a Huge creature).

With this approach, a human can (at best) use a size large weapon designed for a large creature (they'd be using it two handed), a halfling could use a Medium weapon used by Medium creatures, etc.

Small weapons can be solved by letting the mechanics deal with it. A human using a halfing shortsword will eventually want a weapon capable of greater damage. You might want to say that Rogues cannot sneak attack with weapons of size diinutive or smaller (I've only read about weaopns of these sizes being used for Coup de Grace situations or poison)



a simple, efficient, and intuitive solution

 

[Storyteller01]

I only read the first page of this thread, sorry if I am repeating something.

the reason weapon sizing makes sense is because different weapons are proportioned differently. In mathematical terms: great swords, b4stard swords, long swords, short swords, and daggers are NOT similar. NOT!!

a small weapon has the same proportions as a medium weapon, but it is (wait for it...) smaller. Daggers are not small short swords.

its geometry!

Actually, you could argue that they are. regardless of proportions, your aiming for the same tagets, for the same effect.

daggers and shortswords operate on the same priciples, but at a different range. When switching from a shortword to dagger (example, a large bowie knife [think Rambo] vs a bayonet) one just has to take into account the difference in weight, length, and balance. This is not difficult (a few minutes at best) and your aiming for the same points. You even use the same grip (talk to people who have used both the european saber and the japanese katana {a one handed vs two handed weapon}). Shortswords and daggers (D&D rules aside here) have been crafted to use the same types of damage (piercing and slashing). The shortsword gives the benefit of increased range, but operates in the same manner.

It's in this manner that someone who has studied in one type of weapon style can pick up other styles as quickly as they do.

The same could be said for switching from longsword to great sword. The mechanics are the same, but the weight/speed differences need to be taken into account. It's harder to adapt at this scale, but the difference is how fast you can get back on the defensive after you strike, not how or where you strike your target.

this adaption can also be seen across disciplines. This is anecdotal (most of my evidence has been of late. sorry 'bout that), but I know of a friend who took fencing for 7 years (no hand to hand training, mind you). He was at a bar one night when someone took a swing at him. Without thinking, he brought his hand up to block (parry one), then punched the guy in the nose (thrust, at least as he told it). On this note, a halfling could just as easily use a medium rapier as a short spear (typically only the last 4 to 6 inches of a rapiers blade was sharpened, but said halfling could wear gloves if you play otherwise).

My point: If a weapon is similar enough to what you can use, you can make due with little effort. try it yourself, with a baton and a bat. The physics are the same, and you have no problem switching from one to the other (and most of us don't have combat experience!!)

Now as for smaller scale: how many of us have been stuck with a tack/hat pin/replica letter opener? Using a smaller weapon isn't that hard, if you think beyond it's design.

 

[PallidPatience]

Edit: Sorry. Accidentally resurrected the wrong thread, when I meant to post in another.

Please disregard this.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's been mentioned over and over again in the thread already.

Note that this thread is two years old, so people may need some time to catch up

-Hyp.