Complete Psioinc...now we've had time...

[Felon]

I'm not talking about a few negative reactions. I mean widespread ones like this Complete Psionics fiasco. I mean, did he really think most of the psionic community would be happy with this book? Did the writers even give it a good read over a few times? I mean, come on, I read over what I just wrote and immediately begin thinking "This won't fly. That's crap. I need to fix that."

They're doing another round of the "Complete" series again, with Complete Mage and Complete Scoundrel. When it comes time for Complete Psionics II, let's hope they get things right this time.

"Widespread" negative reactions? "Fiasco"? Anyone know what Razz is going on about this time?

 

[Mercule]

I haven't heard anyone else comment on this anywhere, but the approach taken with the racial classes (gith, duergar, half-giant, Thri-Kreen) is just freaking brilliant.

This was actually one of my biggest gripes with the book. Actually, it's hard to decide which of the racial bits (feats, PrCs, or levels) annoys me most, but racial levels have never sat well with me, since Savage Species. I figure that whatever is listed in the Monster Manual is the baseline for a race. You can advance beyond that, but nothing before that makes any sense, in most cases (lycanthropes, undead, and other transformative creatures being the exceptions). Spreading it out over 20 levels serves only to aggrevate an already poor concept.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Ardent weak?!?
You get the same number of power points as a psion, armor proficiency (required multiclassing or feats before), granted powers (i.e. better than feat feats) -and- access to lots of discipline powers, including some that aren't availible to psions (healing). You don't get... a psi-crystal...
I think its almost impossible for an ardent to be "weaker" than a psion (with the understanding that you could pick bad powers/feats for the ardent and good ones for the psion).
Heck I'd like to see a psion (i.e. a combination of powers & feats) that an Ardent couldn't also do. (except -maybe- straight blaster)

I was considering an Ardent for a new campaign, but I found the but I found the small selection of powers to be frustrating. And the granted powers are at best equal to a feet, many are worse (and like powers, less flexible).

 

[Evilhalfling]

This was actually one of my biggest gripes with the book.... Spreading it out over 20 levels serves only to aggrevate an already poor concept.

Spread out may be a bit of an understatement;
for LA +1 you get 1/2 you SA at first level and the other half at 2nd (but no HD)
The githzari and githyanki are spread further because they naturally get new Psi powers with class levels. The thrikreen actually looks more useful, assuming you wanted to start out as a juvanile - which might adapt better to human society anyway...

Looking at it closely its not that bad. Its weighted heavily to the front so by the time you hit the ECL you have all the racial abilities and then you precede normally from there, indistiguisable from someone who just used the LA. However it is of very limited usefulness.
Really my big problem is that this book had lots of uncessary material, and was too short.

 

[Vlos]

Currently own all the Complete books... This is one I wish I could take back...

I like psionics, currently playing one in a new campaign that I held off until the book came out as I was hoping it would have cool things for the character. I was sorely disappointed.

The only thing I am using out of the entire book is the Erudite, none of the feats, powers. They just really don't impress me.

When I started the character I wanted a Psionic Archer, and then I heard about the Soulbow, and I was like wow, they read my mind, but it's really not what I had in mind. Basically they took the Soulknife and made it into a ranged class, which some probably may like. And I guess this is probably the next best thing about the book, but you can get it off the site for free, so again no reason to buy the book.

The feats are too racial specific. What if I want to play a psionic dwarf or elf, 75%+ of the feats are for the psionic races.

The new format of the PrC takes up way too much space and you could have gotten alot more classes in the same amount of space. I think more people create their own societies or groups to wrap around the PrC to better fit the classes any ways than use the ones that are attached the classes are printed (at least thats the way it seems to run in the campaigns I'm in or run, thus why do we need all the fluff). People need a balanced set of PrC, then they can wrap the fluff. It's coming up with the "balance" that is hard.

The only other thing worth mentioning is the "Houses" which only get aboutu 2.5 pages. If anything this could have been expanded over the fluff of the PrC.

Personnally get a copy of the Erudite from the Dragon magazine or somewhere, use the Soulbow and save yourself $$.

 

[Mercule]

Looking at it closely its not that bad. Its weighted heavily to the front so by the time you hit the ECL you have all the racial abilities and then you precede normally from there, indistiguisable from someone who just used the LA. However it is of very limited usefulness.
Really my big problem is that this book had lots of uncessary material, and was too short.

It's not the balance that bugs me. It's the mechanics and concept.

Mechanically, I don't want to have, basically, a gestalt character. Sure, half the gestalt is pretty piddly, but that doesn't excuse it.

Conceptually, I think the idea of playing a character of one of the +x LA races at anything below the baseline (x+1) is absurd and makes no sense outside a pure metagame sense. The most egregious are giants that start at medium and work up to huge, and similar changes, but the entire mechanic is pretty lame. It's one of those things that I can see getting thrown into a book, then quietly swept under the rug, once the crack pipe is put down.

My heart breaks for the gamers who want to play a fiendish, half-dragon, hill giant weredireboar at first level. Really, though, it just makes no sense if you focus on anything besides the character being a collection of numbers.

 

[WarlockLord]

Talk about your lunatic hysteria.

What symptoms are you presenting, eh? Fever? Shortness of breath? Nausea? Itchy scalp?

Disgust, horror, anger. It's a pychological disease.


WHY do we have divine psionics? The Ardent is a philosopher, but the divine mind? Huh? Why?

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Disgust, horror, anger. It's a pychological disease.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Disgust? Horror? Anger? Did divinely-themed psionics kill your baby?

 

[Eridanis]

Point made, I think. Please return to the topic. Thanks!

 

[SoulStorm]

I dont see the Ardent as divine, but as a philosophical seeker of Truth, very Socrates. I love it dearly.

As I said, fits my world like a glove. Pisonics was first developed by philosophers meditating on higher meaning, and uncovering the hidden potential of the sapient mind. I couldnt have been happier. You and I usually have almost the exact same view of psionics, Psion, so Id like to get the Ardent to jive for you. It isnt divinely inspired, it is based on Platonic ideals.

It isnt gods that provide the basis for it, its universal archetypes and paradigms. And they dont give power to the psionics, that always comes from whithin. The ideals provide a model for the Ardent to strive for, a philosophical foundation and inspiration for the mind and soul to build upon.

It isnt a god providing psionic power to a worshipper, its a philosopher finding the inspiration to let his inner power emerge, a seeker of knowledge grasping hold of universal ideals and using them as an anchor to let his mind and soul's power flow out.

But the Divine Mind flavor text, as written, makes me ill. I apply the same reasoning as the Ardent to them.

Well said, bravo!