Complexity of Magic Systems

[klofft]

[My first poll!]

For the more advanced player, which present official rules system do you think is the most complicated for magic (from a mechanical point of view)? I am not equating "complicated" with either "good" or "bad"; just "complicated."

Here are my reasons for omitting the two spellcasting options not included in the poll options: I didn't include Binding, as it really has more in common, IMO, with the Marshal or the Dragon Shaman than traditional spellcasting. I didn't include the Warlock, as the majority of their options are variations on a single trick that is more "class ability" than traditional "spell." I don't think I missed any other official subsystems.

As a bonus, include your thoughts on the least complicated system for a newbie.

 

[greywulf]

I'd say that having to preparing spells in advance is most complex, because you have to approach spellcasting twice - once to select your spells for the day, and again when it comes to actually casting. Add to that needing to choose which spells you have in your spellbook (if you're a Wizard), and it all adds up to one big book-keeping effort.

It's like asking a Fighter to choose his weapons and armour, then select what weapons he's going to take with him for the day, then choose what he's going to use in combat. Most Fighters would just say: "I have a sword. I hit."

For simplicity, a straight spell-point system wins the day. It's easy to understand, and easy to play too.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Prepared magic, a la da Wizard.

 

[klofft]

bump

 

[Deadguy]

Actually, klofft, you needed in your poll to distinguish the Wizard approach to prepared casting, versus, say, the Cleric. A Wizard can be hellishly fiddly for a newcomer. After all a Wizard has three steps in getting a spell out. First the spell must be learned - which may well mean acquiring scrolls or trading for spellbook access. Then they get to select which spells to prepare on a given day (or of course to leave slots open). And finally they get to decide which of those prepared spells is cast at any given opportunity. They are discrete but awkward since choices at any given stage can magnify the consequences.

 

[klofft]

Fair enough. I'm honestly a little surprised at the consistency (and people's evident boredom with said consistency) of the answer. I find incarnum and psionics to have levels of in-play complexity that exceed the wizard (IMO). That doesn't take into account out-of-combat complexity, which the respondents have seemed to have glommed to. I also find the cleric's daily spell selection process more daunting than the wizard's.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Of the ones I'm familiar with, I'll go with Incarnum followed by Prepared Spellcasting.

Incarnum is full of fidly bits that can (and generally should) be adjusted on a fairly regular basis. A high level incarnate has a ton of essentia to invest, lots of soulmelds to invest it in, and needs to switch it around to be competitive with other classes. It may not be significantly more complex than prepared spellcasting, but it's a very complicated system IN PLAY and without the benefits of familiarity to the 'advanced player.'

Prepared casting is second, especially for wizards; it's complex during character creation and advancement (choose what spells you know, then choose what spells you learn as you advance), complex during adventure prep (choose what spells you memorize; don't neglect the metamagic spells you probably have from those bonus feats!) and complex during play (remember all the self-contained rules for every individual spell that has been grandfathered in almost unchanged).

Psionics is probably the simplest system for a new player. Spell points are familiar to almost anyone new to tabletop RPGs but familiar with fantasy (from, well, basically EVERY electronic fantasy game in the last two decades), the basic powers are by and large effects-based and thus easy to understand, and there's no memorization.

Warlock and dragon shaman type abilities are simpler to pick up on, though.

 

[Andor]

I'd say Clerics are more complicated that Wizards for the very reasons that others have said they are harder.

Every day a cleric has to choose spells from a list of hundreds spread across multiple books.

A wizard has already winnowed his choices down to the 5 to 50 in his spell books, he can just check his sheet, instead of hauling out the Tome of Mystic Smackdown I-VII. He only needs to consult the books when he levels up or he gets to go shopping.

And I voted for Incarnum for most complicated, almost all soulmelds have multiple effects depending on where they are bound and if essentia has been assigned to them. An Incarnum player really needs to read through and become familiar with his available melds to be a usefull team member. The one line summary in the class powers list ain't gonna cut it.