[Conan]: I need a Conan version of the Bard.

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I like the Noble, though the Lead by Example bit seems more than a little out of character and I think they need some more martial qualities to make sense of how often they fill out the ranks of knights in armies, but it seems to me that it doesn't fit the spectrum of social classes.

My only real complaints for any of the classes are about the Noble's class features and the Born to the Saddle for Nomad, but that's not what gets me. What get's me is that in this wonderfully specific game the poor Noble class has to do too many duties.

Afterall, if there are going to be Barbarians and Borderers shouldn't there be something to represent low class and non-military social types?

It just doesn't fit the feel of the stories for me to have merchants with titles and princesses with heavy armor proficiencies. I need something different. A non-combat adventuring class with social, skill, and trickery power that fits somewhere in the space between scholar, noble, and thief.

I've been working on something based off of the mechanics for Arcana Unearthed's Akashic, but mostly I wanted to know what the general opinion is on this.

Does anyone else have a complaint or an argument to assuage my bitter heart? Or a suggestion on what class I could put into its place?

I ask not just for my desire to have a class for every princess that people have to rescue, but also for a suffering PC who I just know wants something along these lines.

 

[argo]

Afterall, if there are going to be Barbarians and Borderers shouldn't there be something to represent low class and non-military social types?

It just doesn't fit the feel of the stories for me to have merchants with titles and princesses with heavy armor proficiencies. I need something different. A non-combat adventuring class with social, skill, and trickery power that fits somewhere in the space between scholar, noble, and thief.

Well, if what you want is an NPC social type (for those limp-wristed princes and fat merchants) then I see noting wrong with bringing over the expert class. Matter of fact in my Conan campaign the expert is the only NPC class (I hate commoners).

If OTOH you want something for a PC then I suggest ... the Scholar. Scholars have an impressive skill list which really only lacks Diplomacy and since Conan characters can spend their bonus skill points from a high Int on any skill that isn't such a hard gap to close. Furthermore remember that a scholar can choose to forgo learning a new sorcery style in exchange for taking Skill Focus as a bonus feat and he can forgo learning a new advanced spell in exchange for another +2 skill points. A skill-focused scholar with a decent Int could easily have between 12-14 skill points per level. Not to mention the Knolwedge Is Power class feature and a darn good will save to boot.

Lastly if you want a character who can sing or chant to inspire allies then I have a feat chain Nordheimir Skald Training that Iron Chef and I worked out some months ago. I can post it if you like.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

All right, you seem to know the scholar pretty well.

I'm developing a class, the Vagabond, to work with my complaint, but I don't want it to treat on the scholar's territory.

So far, I feel pretty good about it, but I have the following question.

Each one picks a background that adds to the skill list and provides an appropriate skill bonus feat: like Acrobatic with its +2 to tumble and jump for the Entertainer background. The Background then provides some bonus skill points at first level and more at 5, 10, and 15.

Now, I want this class to have some skill versatility and good specialization, but I don't want it to have the breadth of the basic scholar or the depth of the pure non-spellcasting scholar.

So:

would it be better to give the Vagabond 6 skill points at every level and 4 background skill points at first level and 2 background skill points at each background boost

or

give the Vagabond 4 skill points at every level and 8 background skill points at every level with 4 skill background points at every background boost?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Lastly if you want a character who can sing or chant to inspire allies then I have a feat chain Nordheimir Skald Training that Iron Chef and I worked out some months ago. I can post it if you like.

Hope that helps.

I would love to see that.

Was it designed specifically to create singing scholars?

I'd heard of someone on the Conan forums who created a similar feat tree to make monk-like scholars feasible.

 

[Maester Luwin]

Hey Argo! I indeed remember that feat & it was great! Could you please post it here for easier reference? Thanks Maester Luwin

 

[argo]

Ask and ye shall recieve. Co-author credit for these go to Iron Chef.


Nordheimir Skald Training: Loremaster
You have been trained in the oral history and sagas of your people by the famed Skalds of Nordheim.

Prerequisite: Must be a Nordheimer, Knowledgeable, Perform (Oratory) 1 rank, 1 rank in any two knowledge skills.

Benefit:A character with this feat may perform a Lore check to recall obscure or legendary information. A Lore check is made with a bonus equal to his character level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. A successful Lore check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint to its general function. A skald may not take 10 or 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentialy random. The GM determines the DC of the Lore check as follows:

DC 10: Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the locals.
DC 20: Uncommon, but available, known by only a few people in the area.
DC 25: Obscure, known by a few, hard to come by.
DC 30: Extremely obscure, known to only a very few, or its significance unknown, or forgotten.

Special: A skald who moves into a new area receives a -5 penalty to Lore checks until he has resided there for a period of thirty days or more. He requires this time to gain familiarity with the place and contacts in the area.

If a skald has 5 or more ranks in a Knowledge skill that applies to the subject in question, he gains a +2 bonus on all Lore checks regarding this area of expertise.


Nordheimir Skald Training: Warsinger
You have been trained in the songs of your people by the Skalds of Nordheim.

Prerequisite: Must be a Nordheimer, Nordheimir Skald Training: Loremaster, Knowledgeable, Perform (Oratory) 3 ranks, Perform (Sing) 3 ranks, 2 ranks in any two knowledge skills.

Benefit: A character with this feat may craft and perform legendary songs. These songs can either be inspiring or intimidating. Characters may perform any type of song they qualify for. Once per day, you may perform any one of the options this feat bestows. All uses of this feat are considered extraordinary mind-affecting abilities.

Singing or chanting is a free action and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. However, each time the skald is hit while singing or chanting, he must make a Concentration check to continue the song or chant (DC 10 + Damage dealt). Failure means the song or chant ends immediately and any lingering effects end at the end of the round the skald failed his save, unless noted otherwise (for example, if a flat duration is indicated).

Inspire Courage: A skald with three ranks in Perform (Sing) can sing so that all allies within 30 ft. (including the skald) receive a +1 morale bonus to Will saves vs. fear/terror and charm effects, and a +1 morale bonus to hit and damage. This bonus increases to +2 at 10 ranks of Perform (Sing), +3 at 15 ranks, and +4 at 20 ranks.

Inspire Competence: A skald with six or more ranks in Perform (Sing) can cause one ally within 30 ft. (including himself) to gain a +2 morale bonus to one skill check. This bonus stacks with the aid another action. This bonus increases to +3 with 12 ranks in Perform (Sing), and +4 with 18 ranks.

Inspire Emotion: A skald with three or more ranks in Performance (Sing) can move an audience within 30 ft. to joy, lust or tears (skald's choice). The skald uses his Magic Attack Bonus to set the DC of the Will save to resist. If he succeeds, he gains a +2 bonus to his next Bluff (non-combat only), Diplomacy or Gather Information skill check against the targets if made within 24 hours of his performance. This bonus increases to +3 with 6 ranks, and +4 with 12 ranks.

War Chant: A skald with 3 or more ranks in Perform (Sing) can intone a grim, bloody-minded war chant to strike fear into his foes, who will see him as an implacable and deadly foe. He uses his Magic Attack roll to set the DC of the target creatures' Will saves. A war chant causes affected foes to become shaken for five rounds.

War March: A skald with 3 or more ranks in Perform (Sing) can increase the walking, hustling or marching movement of a group of willing allies (including himself) by a number of miles per day equal to his Charisma modifier x2. This bonus does not apply to running or mounted movement.

Special: This feat may be taken up to three times; each time you take it, you may use it an additional time per day.



So a sample Skald might look something like this:
Race Nordheimer: +2 con, -2 Dex, +1 on wilderness skills, +1 damage w/sword, Wep prof: Broadsword, Wep Familiarity: War Sword

Class Barbarian (favored class)

28 pt buy:
Str: 15
Dex: 10 (12 -2)
Con: 14 (12 +2)
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 13

At 4th level +1 Con, at 6th level +1 to all

Feats
Level 1: Knowledgeable
Favored 1: NST:Loremaster
Level 3: NST:Warsinger
Favored 5: Power Attack
Level 6: Fighting-Madness (or another NST:Warsiger if that is your focus)

 

[argo]

As for your other questions. You don't need any new feats for a martial artist Scholar, it is already a class option. Simply take the Oriental Sorcery style and trade in the rest of your sorcery styles for bonus martial-arts feats. Use the spells in the Oriental style to boost your dex and remember that unarmed strikes are finessable weapons. Bam! By mid levels you can easily have a character with an absurd dodge DV and attack bonus. Only downside is your damage isn't so good but that can be remedied in several different ways.

I'm developing a class, the Vagabond, to work with my complaint, but I don't want it to treat on the scholar's territory.

So far, I feel pretty good about it, but I have the following question.

Each one picks a background that adds to the skill list and provides an appropriate skill bonus feat: like Acrobatic with its +2 to tumble and jump for the Entertainer background. The Background then provides some bonus skill points at first level and more at 5, 10, and 15.

Now, I want this class to have some skill versatility and good specialization, but I don't want it to have the breadth of the basic scholar or the depth of the pure non-spellcasting scholar.

So:

would it be better to give the Vagabond 6 skill points at every level and 4 background skill points at first level and 2 background skill points at each background boost

or

give the Vagabond 4 skill points at every level and 8 background skill points at every level with 4 skill background points at every background boost?

I'm not sure that this is a fruitful road for you to follow. Remember, most of the classes in conan already have decent skill selection (not to mention racial background skills and skill bonuses) and every character can potentially learn any skill as a class skill by having a high Inteligence score. My experience thus far has been that most of my players have plenty of versatility in the skill department. Heck, I had one player make a soldier with spot and listen skills so high the players took to calling him the human radar (OOC of course). Another played a borderer with an 18 Int and actually complained that he had more skills than he knew what to do with!

That said I would probably go with the 6 skill points per level scenario you outlined above and let the class pick something like 10 or 12 skills to be class skills plus the skills granted by background.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

As for your other questions. You don't need any new feats for a martial artist Scholar, it is already a class option. Simply take the Oriental Sorcery style and trade in the rest of your sorcery styles for bonus martial-arts feats. Use the spells in the Oriental style to boost your dex and remember that unarmed strikes are finessable weapons. Bam! By mid levels you can easily have a character with an absurd dodge DV and attack bonus. Only downside is your damage isn't so good but that can be remedied in several different ways.



I'm not sure that this is a fruitful road for you to follow. Remember, most of the classes in conan already have decent skill selection (not to mention racial background skills and skill bonuses) and every character can potentially learn any skill as a class skill by having a high Inteligence score. My experience thus far has been that most of my players have plenty of versatility in the skill department. Heck, I had one player make a soldier with spot and listen skills so high the players took to calling him the human radar (OOC of course). Another played a borderer with an 18 Int and actually complained that he had more skills than he knew what to do with!

That said I would probably go with the 6 skill points per level scenario you outlined above and let the class pick something like 10 or 12 skills to be class skills plus the skills granted by background.

Hope that helps.

Thanks, it really does. I was sitting down with the character class last night, and I came to a pretty similar conclusion. As a result I have decided to go with the six skill points, add in the option of skill boosting feats rather than a boost to skill points and a bonus to reputation based on the type of Vagabond in question.

I like the freely chosen class skills idea, I may go with that.

Now a combat question:

I am a little worried that the class has too little to do in combat. As it is I have set them up to be very good on the defensive, but only if they are not wearing armor and go with the defensive combat or total defense action. Did the best I could to simulate the Princess who doesn't fight too well and doesn't look too tough, but also never gets hit. The sort of character for whom cowardice is a strategic decision. Fine for the character.

For the party I redid the Noble's Lead by Example to be a bit more martial, and then took that ability and gave it to the Vagabond as Handy in a Fight. That's a very useful ability to have in a party, and I also gave the class a bonus to skill checks made while fighting defensively so that the character would not only make a good combat healer but be capable of the sort of catch the McGuffin tactics that tend to characterize the class.

So those are decent combat abilities, but one is situationally useful and the other doesn't show up till mid level.

The thing I'm toying with now is a pool of automatically renewable fate points that the vagabond can maintain in order to fuel deadly blows and other class specific abilities.

My question is: Is that last ability too powerful? Right now I'm limiting it so that these extra fate points can only be used with simple weapons and no armor heavier than light, but I'm still uncertain as to how many fate points to offer or how it should scale up.

I like the idea of a class that highlights some of the new game features, but since they are new I'm not totally certain of how they balance.

 

[Maester Luwin]

Hey Argo!!! Many thanks for posting the feat(s)!!! They're great! Two of my players are going along the Ffhard(?) & Grey Mouser line as one is playing a small lithe oriental sorcer & the other a Nordheim barbarian (& this feat will be perfect for him as he wants something more than just a hacker/slasher). Thanks again Maester Luwin

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Well, two of my players leapt on the class I created, and while there was some difficulty understanding some of the mechanics there was no more or less than with the other players, so it looks to be working well.

Noone's dead yet, but we also have yet to enter combat.