D&D 3E/3.5 Concentration Rules - fix them for a more 3e feel

[Sadrik]

Ok, so one of the major changes to the rules, in an attempt to limit casters and their ability to dominate play at high levels, was to institute some pretty onus rules for concentration. Since it appears many of the 5e spells were adapted directly from 3e where the same level of onus was not given to concentration. This makes a lot of 5e spells have concentration. 5e concentration greatly limits the power of the caster, and in particular buffing, debuffing, and area spells which seem to have gotten a good piece of the concentration rules.

As a review of the 5e concentration rules:

• Cast a concentration spell and end concentration on your previous spell, can only be concentrating on one concentration spell at a time.
• Struck by damage and end concentration on your spell unless you make a CON save (DC is 10 + 1/2 damage).
• Environmental effect and end concentration on your spell unless you make a CON save (DC 10).
• Incapacitated and end concentration on your spell.
• Dead and end concentration on your spell.
• Choose to end concentration of your spell (no action).

3e

Concentration DC1 				Distraction
10 + damage dealt 				Damaged during the action.2
10 + half of continuous damage last dealt 	Taking continuous damage during the action.3
Distracting spell’s save DC 			Distracted by nondamaging spell.4
10 						Vigorous motion (on a moving mount, taking a bouncy wagon ride, in a small boat in rough water, belowdecks in a stormtossed ship).
15 						Violent motion (on a galloping horse, taking a very rough wagon ride, in a small boat in rapids, on the deck of a storm-tossed ship).
20 						Extraordinarily violent motion (earthquake).
15 						Entangled.
20 						Grappling or pinned. (You can cast only spells without somatic components for which you have any required material component in hand.)
5 						Weather is a high wind carrying blinding rain or sleet.
10 						Weather is wind-driven hail, dust, or debris.
Distracting spell’s save DC 			Weather caused by a spell, such as storm of vengeance.4

1   If you are trying to cast, concentrate on, or direct a spell when the distraction occurs, add the level of the spell to the indicated DC.
2   Such as during the casting of a spell with a casting time of 1 round or more, or the execution of an activity that takes more than a single full-round action (such as Disable Device). Also, damage stemming from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the spell being cast (for spells with a casting time of 1 standard action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action).
3   Such as from acid arrow.
4   If the spell allows no save, use the save DC it would have if it did allow a save.

It really is not that much different. The big differences are many more concentration spells and incapacitation ends concentration automatically.

Casting a spell is automatic in 5e. You do not need to make a concentration check to cast spells anymore. If you are not incapacitated (no actions or reactions) you can cast. There is no readying an action to disrupt the casting of a spell. Cast in a tremendous storm no problem (DC 10). You can even cast instantaneous spells while underwater it appears now without a hitch (DC 10?).

The proposal:
You can concentrate on any number of spells. You do not automatically lose concentration when incapacitated but you have to make a DC 15 CON save to maintain spells if incapacitated. Also, if you are struck while casting a spell (concentration or other) you have to make a CON save DC 10 + 1/2 damage or the spell is cancelled. If you are struck, you have to make a concentration save for each of your spells you are concentrating on.

A hybrid proposal:
Each creature has on buff "slot". They can only receive one buff at a time. They have to maintain it. Not the caster. So if the wizard casts invisibility on the rogue, the rogue maintains the invisibility not the wizard. If the cleric casts bless those it affects maintain the concentration on it. Fly cast on the fighter must be maintained be them.
Debuffs and area spells with concentration work the same as before. Only one. To make this clear the "buff" slot is separate from the only one debuff or area spell. A cleric could cast bless and still maintain a bestow curse or blade barrier because the bless fills the "buff" slot and the bestow curse or blade barrier occupies the "concentration" slot.

 

[Redthistle]

Make it rare and a Feat

I must respectively disagree somewhat with your perspective on this. Granted, we're talking about a fantasy RPG where anything is possible, so it's not a major point of contention.

Re "The proposal":
Concentration is all about the shifting balance between focus and distraction. As we hear about all too often in the news, drivers on their cell phones contribute to accidents, as do pedestrians on their own media devices.

Despite all beliefs and wishes to the contrary, our brains really cannot concentrate very well on more than one thing at a time. Multi-tasking effectively is all about how quickly we can shift our focus from one task to another, including recalling just where one was with the information pertinent to the new focus, and almost has more in common with urban legends than pragmatic reality.

Studies of multi-tasking over the last 20 years or so show that when multi-tasking, productivity diminishes to around 80% of the quality of what can be accomplished by concentrating on just one task. As we age, our ability to switch quickly between multiple tasks diminishes, as it takes a little longer to recoup that "where was I with this?" place.

So, I disagree with the idea of being able to concentrate on any number of spells as a normal function.

However, I share your frustration at how much this limits potential for a spell-casting PC. Hence, my counter-proposal:

Being able to maintain concentration on more than one spell at a time should be a rare and remarkable ability. How about requiring a Feat for it?

Enhanced Concentration. Pre-requisites: Spell-caster 8th level or higher; War Caster Feat.

Through diligent study and hard-won experience, you have developed the skill to maintain more than a single spell at a time.

- Increase your spell-casting ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- You are able to maintain concentration on one additional spell for each time you take this Feat.
- The first time you take this Feat, you lose the Advantage on your Constitution saving throws granted by the War Caster Feat whenever you are maintaining more than one spell. If you take this Feat a second time, you regain Advantage on Concentration saving throws regardless of the number of spells you are maintaining.
- The DC for your Constitution saving throws to maintain concentration on the spells increases by 1 for each spell you are maintaining, including the initial maintained spell you cast. Normally, the DC is 10; for two spells it is DC 12, for three spells it is DC 13, etc.
- Failing the Constitution saving throw ends one of your maintained spells (player's choice).

Thank you, Sadrik, for raising this issue. May all your game sessions be entertaining.

 

[Sadrik]

Something that I neglected to cover in the first post about 3e concentration:

Duration
A spell’s Duration entry tells you how long the magical energy of the spell lasts.

Timed Durations
Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or some other increment. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell’s duration is variable the duration is rolled secretly (the caster doesn’t know how long the spell will last).

Instantaneous
The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.
Permanent
The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

Concentration
The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.

You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating.

So what this means is that in 5e they altered many of the spells that once had a timed duration to spells with concentration. The concentration rules appear ported over very directly. In my "proposal" above it does not take into account the concentration spell possibility that already occurred in 3e. That said I have played 3e and earlier editions for many years, I do not recall using the concentration rules like this. It may be a bug of my play groups. But I think the way the 5e concentration rules have blind sided many people, I think this is true of more than just me.

Concentration is all about the shifting balance between focus and distraction. As we hear about all too often in the news, drivers on their cell phones contribute to accidents, as do pedestrians on their own media devices.

Despite all beliefs and wishes to the contrary, our brains really cannot concentrate very well on more than one thing at a time. Multi-tasking effectively is all about how quickly we can shift our focus from one task to another, including recalling just where one was with the information pertinent to the new focus, and almost has more in common with urban legends than pragmatic reality.

Studies of multi-tasking over the last 20 years or so show that when multi-tasking, productivity diminishes to around 80% of the quality of what can be accomplished by concentrating on just one task. As we age, our ability to switch quickly between multiple tasks diminishes, as it takes a little longer to recoup that "where was I with this?" place.

So, I disagree with the idea of being able to concentrate on any number of spells as a normal function.

I agree and I have read some of those studies/ seen talks about people's ability to concentrate on one task. That said, lets see if we cannot define a little better what concentration really might look like in a fantasy setting. When it comes to maintaining a spell's concentration and would 80% of effectiveness be enough to do it?

A wizard who maintains a spell might recalculate something in their head, they might gesture to control the effect a little better, etc.

However, I share your frustration at how much this limits potential for a spell-casting PC. Hence, my counter-proposal:

Being able to maintain concentration on more than one spell at a time should be a rare and remarkable ability. How about requiring a Feat for it?

I am not really frustrated about the rules. That said, the rules may be better representative of 3e, for those who want it, by lowering the reliance on concentration. So some rule mitigating concentration may be useful. Your proposal is a pretty good choice for those who want to keep the concentration rules exactly as they are. This would also become a feat tax. Every caster's power would dramatically increase by taking this feat. In this way, every caster would need this feat.

I think giving every caster this ability as a special rule rule would be the best way to do this.

For each spell concentrating on increase the DC by one. Max number of spells that can be maintained is equal to the casting stat. Roll concentration for each spell when hit.

This would be good.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think it would be very interesting to try out your option of "the target rolls concentration checks" instead of the caster. There are significant tactical differences as a consequence.

It really is not that much different. The big differences are only one concentration spell at a time and incapacitation ends concentration automatically (grappling someone automatically ends concentration).

Casting a spell is automatic in 5e. You do not need to make a concentration check to cast spells anymore.

I don't remember well, but I think also in 3e you couldn't maintain more than one concentration spell, since maintaining concentration was a standard action (in some rare cases, a caster could have more than one standard per round). Rather, the difference is that there were probably much less spells with "duration: concentration" than there are now requiring concentration, but in 5e it takes no action to concentrate! Also I don't think in 3e you needed a concentration check to cast those spells.

Anyway, I think personally I'm going to be loose with concentration checks and making up the DC on the fly, rather than following strictly the "DC10 or nothing" for non-damaging distractions.

 

[werecorpse]

In the FGU game Bushido they had a rule where a character could only have 1 of a certain type of spell on you at any 1 time. I think they were called enhancement spells.

To act as a halfway house to 3e approach you could re designate all the concentration buff spells as "enhancement" spells, not requiring concentration. Then have the 1 enhancement spell per person limit ( or more if you chose, ie 1+ level/3 or 1+ cha bonus ( min 1) etc). You then Still keep the concentration rules for the attack spells

 

[jodyjohnson]

To act as a halfway house to 3e approach you could re designate all the concentration buff spells as "enhancement" spells, not requiring concentration. Then have the 1 enhancement spell per person limit. You then Still keep the concentration rules for the attack spells

I would use this if I wanted more buffing in the game.

5e as written really limits the buffing.
1. Magic Items are limited and not craftable as the default (scrolls, wands, staves, rods could really increase access to spells in 3.x)
2. Spell slots reduced drastically at the upper levels and combined with the spell scaling rules make less low level spells available for short lasting buffs.
3. Concentration rules.
4. Optional Potion Miscibility - since potions ignore concentration (this is actually a variant on the 'one enhancement spell' idea).

This addresses only the Concentration rules.

 

[Sadrik]

Concentration
Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends.
If a spell must be maintained with concentration, that fact appears in its Duration entry, and the spell specifies how long you can concentrate on it. Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
• Casting another spell that requires concentration. If you cast another spell that requires concentration, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration on each concentration spell. The first concentration spell's DC is 5, the next is 10, and each additional spell cast adds 5 to the DC.
• Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration on each spell. The DC is 15, if you take less than 25 damage you have advantage, or if you take 50 or more damage you have disadvantage. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon’s breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
• Environment. The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you’re on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on spells. Light environmental effects give advantage and very violent ones give disadvantage.
• Being incapacitated. Being incapacitated, require you to succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on spells.
• Being killed. You lose concentration on all spells if you die.
• You can end concentration on a spell at any time (no action required).

 

[tigycho]

What about something like shadowrun has with a focus which maintains a spell for you? A Ring of Concentration which requires attunement and allows you to concentrate on an extra spell. The fact that it requires attunement means that the caster will have to make a decision to attune to the ring and possibly forgo use of another item. The ring doesn't do all the heavy lifting for the spell either so if you take damage or otherwise have to make a concentration check then you will have to roll for both spells.

Quite like this. Maybe a McGuffin of Maintainance would be further limited by the levels of spells involved... since it isn't DoiNG the concentration, but rather assisting, if you would otherwise lose concentration, you still do. Another tool could be to include a level limit... so a lesser McGuffin could help you split concentration for you on a low level spell, say first or 2nd, a regular could go up to 4th, and a greater could go up to 6th.

If using a lesser McGuffin, all spells must be within the level limit... it can't help you 'split' concentration on spells above 2nd level.

One could also house rule in Familiars being able to assist in the same way.

 

[Sadrik]

I don't quite understand.

Are you saying... a caster can concentrate on only a certain number of spell levels each round? Then adding a familiar they may pick up a few spell levels of concentration too?

Say you can only concentrate on a number of spell levels equal to the highest spell level you can cast. So if you could cast level 5 spells you might be able to concentrate on a level 2 and a level 3. Your familiar might be able to concentrate on a level 1 too.

 

[jodyjohnson]

If one were to regard 3.x style buffing as a feature rather than a bug I would drop the Concentration descriptor from all the spells except those that included an action for additional effect (e.g. Moonbeam, Flaming Sphere) or that have a different effect if Concentration is maintained (e.g. Wall of Stone).

Otherwise the other limitations to stacking spells apply (less slots, non-scaling durations).