D&D 5E Concentration rules in action

[trentonjoe]

We played last night using a combination of the latest test packet and the Starter/Basic Set rules.

• 6th level characters
• Bard
• Barbarian
• Cleric
• Ranger

I ran multiple monsters that with concentration spells. Here are the results:

CR 2 monster, lowish AC (15), High Con (16)

• Was engaged by the Battle Cleric, and then later the archer/ranger
• Made all the DC 10 checks (the two hits from the cleric and the first arrow), it only needed a 7.
• Failed the final DC 12 check, the archer did serious damage on the last shot (bard song, hunters mark and the colossus slayer ranger ability) but it was pretty much dead at that point.
• Spell lasted 2 rounds of melee combat.

CR 3 monster, low AC (13), was causing disadvantage to be attacked, also had access to shield, ALL saves were DC 10, needed a 9

• First round was attacked twice, hit once, made save,
• Second round, attacked 3 or 4 times, hit once, made save
• Third round, swarmed, attacked a bunch of times, eventually failed save

It looks like to me the saves will be made pretty consistently when:

• There is only one save being made per round
• It stays at 10

I think they'll be failed commonly when:

1. Being swarmed by multiple opponents
2. Facing opponents with multiple attacks around
3. The DC gets above 10

 

[ccooke]

More importantly, how did the rules play out in terms of challenge, drama and fun?

 

[Zelc]

Be careful of small sample sizes.

In the first scenario, the odds of succeeding the first 3 Concentration checks needing only a 7 is 34%. Odds of succeeding the first 2 Concentration checks needing a 7 is 49%.

In the second scenario, the odds of succeeding the first 2 Concentration checks needing a 10 is 30%.

 

[trentonjoe]

More importantly, how did the rules play out in terms of challenge, drama and fun?

It was interesting. It definitely made combat decisions more tactical. As a DM, I made some suboptimal choices for the monsters attack actions. In a most effective way, I should have had the not buffed monsters protecting the casters a little better.

For the intelligent monsters, I'll do that in the future. I think if I always do that, combats will become predictable though. I will try to mix and match those strategies in the future.

The first enemy had an offensive spell up (sword became flaming) so the group had to decide who was going to engage her. It was interesting. In the future, I can see them developing a battle plan for those situations.

The second enemy had a defensive spell (blur) up. They took a different approach to this one.

I can totally see them trying to swarm anyone with a noticeably active spell going. The challenge I think they will face going forward is how to best handle situations when PLAN A and B don't work.



I am thinking about making an Orc Shaman or something that can make a melee attack as a reaction when it's concentration in broken and devising other quirks to keep things different.

In a nut shell, I think it throws another wrinkle into combat. I do think that the wrinkle has the opportunity to be a constant (like Attacks of Opportunity used to be) and that is the job of the DM to design combats that don't always rely on the concentration rule.

To answer your question, it didn't HINDER the challenge, drama or fun and certainly HELPED in the necessity of a new level of decision making. Right now the rules are still shiny and new so everything still has the "new car smell", my hope is that the concentration checks don't become a boring constant.

 

[trentonjoe]

Be careful of small sample sizes.

In the first scenario, the odds of succeeding the first 3 Concentration checks needing only a 7 is 34%. Odds of succeeding the first 2 Concentration checks needing a 7 is 49%.

In the second scenario, the odds of succeeding the first 2 Concentration checks needing a 10 is 30%.

I hear you. To me it boils down to two types of casters. Those who want to be in melee and those who don't.

The MELEE casters have to levels of defense to keep the spell up, Don't Get Hit and then Make the Save. You have options in combat and character creation to manipulate both of those.

Non melee guys have those 2 and a third, Don't Get Attacked. Which increases choices in combat.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I hear you. To me it boils down to two types of casters. Those who want to be in melee and those who don't.

The MELEE casters have to levels of defense to keep the spell up, Don't Get Hit and then Make the Save. You have options in combat and character creation to manipulate both of those.

Non melee guys have those 2 and a third, Don't Get Attacked. Which increases choices in combat.

Exactly. It's Don't Get Attacked that I see as being the most difficult to pull off, unless you are fighting primarily unintelligent foes. If it is clear that the wizard is buffing a friend or debuffing your leader, it seems like most foes will pull out their ranged attacks and pelt him until concentration breaks.

It just seems like it's making it so buffs and debuffs are virtually useless versus multiple intelligent opponents with ranged attacks. Maybe that is intended. It just seems like a rather common encounter situation to make make buffs and debuffs so devalued in it.

 

[drjones]

It just seems like it's making it so buffs and debuffs are virtually useless versus multiple intelligent opponents with ranged attacks. Maybe that is intended. It just seems like a rather common encounter situation to make make buffs and debuffs so devalued in it.

As I'm sure you know we don't have all the rules yet, I would not be surprised if there are a lot more optional tools for protecting a caster monster or player in the full game. An enemy would not have to be that smart to know they should put a grunt with a big shield and training in intercepting ranged attacks next to the one important caster in their group.

I'm not certain at this point how the opportunity costs of debuffs will play out. This system is similar to the 4e sustain system but in that case status effects were still so powerful compared to straight damage in some circumstances that they debuffs still got a lot of use despite not being able to maintain multiple spells at once.