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D&D 5E Concentration variations

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
If a level 2 spell slot makes a class feature obsolete, what is the point of class features?

You get more spell slots than other classes get class features.

16 dex and 16 wis is a large investment. 16 dex/con is a large investment. A 2nd level spell slot is not.

I'll admit barkskin is a bad spell; the concentration cost is high.

But making it last all day and stripping concentration isn't the way to fix it.
the point of a class feature?... perhaps the ability to grow with higher stats or enchanted armor?... Also don't forget that there are multiple ways a druid can get 16 ac as early as level 1 without casting the spell they could cast at level 3. How far does class feature protectionism go & why does spellcasting not count as a class feature? Once you leave the spherical cow of no feats no magic items noncasters have better average & peak damage than casters, generally better hp than casters, almost always better ac than casters, & because of 5e design choices for spells like excessive concentration tags & unused by design spells even the value of utility stuff spells can supply is regularly little more than questionable to "sometimes maybe but probably not worth keeping prepped".


Again we are comparing a 2nd level spell equaling the ac so so many classes in the starting ink still wet from character creation state. 16 dex & dex builds were a big investment in 3.5 when they needed to take weapon finesse & such, in 5e it means you are doin a dex build for what is likely a largely dex based class. The point is that it's a way dex builds can trivially obtain 16ac too. 16 con or wis on a fighter wizard druid or paladin might be a big investment sure, but for a MAD class like barbarian or monk who have other features that use those abilities not so much & that monk/barbarian could also get it with an asi to have 14/18 or 12/20 in those two stats.
 

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Spells that force more than 1 successful save break legendary resistance.

Honestly, I look for that kind of thing pretty often in 5e. If you can get multiple saves to avoid a suck from one spell, you have an anti-legendary-resist effect.

Spells that only deal damage, like Zone Spells, are good. One that enforce conditions and repeated saves can become crazy strong against legendary resistance.

If you are paying a spell slot and an action to force a save, that works; if you aren't paying one of those, your ability needs to take into account this issue.
I think it's important to make it so that the initial save on cast determines if the spell affects you at all. If you're hit with Hold, if you succeed on the initial save the spell doesn't affect you at all and no subsequent saves occur. If you fail the initial save then you're effected, but the spell effect allows you to temporarily circumvent the effect for 1 round (until the next save).

Finally, all you have to do is reword Legendary Resistance to automatically save and end on ongoing effect. Legendary resistance is a bodge anyways. Faults with it are the problem with legendary resistance, not everything else.
 

Dausuul

Legend
With regards to failed concentration saves: What if you could sustain concentration after a failed save, by expending a spell slot of the level you originally used to cast the spell?

In terms of slots expended, it's like you re-cast the spell after losing concentration. It does, however, provide an action-economy boost since you don't have to use an action to do it.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
With regards to failed concentration saves: What if you could sustain concentration after a failed save, by expending a spell slot of the level you originally used to cast the spell?

In terms of slots expended, it's like you re-cast the spell after losing concentration. It does, however, provide an action-economy boost since you don't have to use an action to do it.
I cant see many spells worth thst and the few that might be would just make you a target even more than already because those few are the ones where that's what you ate supposed ddo thst with. Overuse of concentration and the trivial concentration dc mess with that idea
 

OptionalRule

Explorer
In the bolded part, do you mean why doesn't the caster use it to maintain, for example, haste?

In terms of making a good tactical decision, you only get partial benefit when using it on a buffing spell, i.e. advantage on concentration saves. The other benefit, imposing disadvantage on an enemy, is wasted. Still, there may be times when this is important enough to be worth it.

If it's causing arguments about how the caster should spend their action, then the table has other problems. Jerks will be jerks. Even in the absence of this option, such people will probably still harass the caster about which spell to use, or who to cast it on, etc. In general I try to not let "yeah, but what about jerks?" be a factor in RPG decision-making, whether it's game/adventure design, roleplaying, or DMing.

What I was going for with this option...with this thread...is a way to let you get the most out of your spell slots. Sure, you could spend another spell slot, or cast sacred flame just because you love watching monsters make Dex saves, but this way you can use your action to increase the efficacy of a slot already used.
Sorry for any confusion. I didn't mean it would always do that. I was saying I'd want to watch my party to make sure it wasn't and a DM will want to flag that as something they want to pay attention to in their management strategy for it.
 

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