Concerned About Character Creation

[CleverNickName]

I'm having a hard time getting my head wrapped around 4E character builds. From what I have seen of the previews, the blogs, and the 4E PHB Lite, building a 4E character is going to be a fairly complicated process. I'm not seeing the easy.

Like any other RPG, you get some stats and you choose a class. 'Nuff said. Then...

...you choose some powers, which let you do some cool stuff...
...then you pick some skills, which let you do some cool stuff...
...then you select feats, which let you do some cool stuff...
...then you pick a path, which lets you do some cool stuff.

That sounds like a lot of "cool stuff" to keep track of. I am getting the impression that if I want to play a good character, I will be studying the PHB more than I will be playing, to gain enough familiarity with the powers, skills, feats, and paths (and roles, and builds, and races) to choose wisely and play correctly. And that sounds like work to me...at least as much work as the reviled 3rd Edition.

Don't get me wrong; having options is great...but I think they may have gone a little bit overbard here. Anyone else concerned about gaming sessions turning into study hall?

 

[keterys]

It's a lot more for most characters to care about at first level, it's true (though maybe not more than, say, a human wizard had to track at 1st)

I think that's why they have the example builds that prepick everything for you, so you just jump right in.

 

[Dragonblade]

No path at level 1.

Just stats, race, class, skills, feats, powers. No different than playing a caster in a 3.5 game. Perhaps easier since you don't have to worry about allocating skill points.

Plus the classes will have suggested builds that will tell you what options to take if you don't want to deal with it.

 

[CleverNickName]

Plus the classes will have suggested builds that will tell you what options to take if you don't want to deal with it.

Yeah, every edition comes with sample characters that nobody* uses.

It sounds like 4E paths = 3E prestige classes. I'm still not seeing how this is supposed to be "easier" than 3rd Edition.

*EDIT: nobody at my table, anyway.

 

[parcival42]

I'm having a hard time getting my head wrapped around 4E character builds. From what I have seen of the previews, the blogs, and the 4E PHB Lite, building a 4E character is going to be a fairly complicated process. I'm not seeing the easy.

Like any other RPG, you get some stats and you choose a class. 'Nuff said. Then...

...you choose some powers, which let you do some cool stuff...
...then you pick some skills, which let you do some cool stuff...
...then you select feats, which let you do some cool stuff...
...then you pick a path, which lets you do some cool stuff.

I'm not really seeing how this is any more complicated than making a character in 3.x...

You had to roll or assign your stats and pick a class...
...then you picked skills, which were more complicated...
...then you picked feats...
...then you possibly had to pick spells...

The only difference is that you are going to have to pick powers with any class you take, rather than just spellcasters in 3.x. At least you only have to do this when you level and not have to worry about what gets memorized every time you rest (which is a big slow down at higher levels).
As far as path, which I assume you mean Paragon Path, you have 10 levels to make a descision, so I don't think that should slow you down too much. Certainly no more than wading through the array of Presteige Classes that were options before.
I think after you make a character once or twice you'll learn the ins and outs and it will be a much quicker process than 3e character gen.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Honestly doing away with skill point allocation is what sold me on 4E.

 

[arscott]

Not really. Consider:

The powers lists are going to be broken down into much smaller chunks than in previous editions which will surely make them easier to digest.

Skill points are out, and the skill list is smaller. So instead of a rogue having to assign 8+Int skill points at each level from a list of thirty, he picks four from a list of eight at character creation and is done with it.

Paragon paths and epic destinies you pick once each. It's not like Prestige classes where you might worry about how many levels of how many different classes you want to take. You just make your choice once and be done with it.

The only two level-up choices that are getting more complex are feats (which you get more often than previously) and non-caster powers (though the fighter doesn't have a million and a half bonus feats, so that evens it out somewhat).

The only classes for whom things actually seem to be getting more complex are the non-caster, non-skill, non-feat folk. Which, given the classes that are actually showing up in the PHB, consist entirely of the paladin.

Sucks to be him.

The underlying issue, though, is rules mastery. In 3e, a careful player spent a lot of time on these choices because a) some of them were intentionally inferior (see toughness and dodge), and b) prerequisites were a b*tch.

If those things are going away (and my understanding is that they are), they you don't actually have to put in the research to make a reasonably effective character. You'll be able to go with your gut, and pick things that feel right.

 

[1of3]

Yeah, every edition comes with sample characters that nobody* uses.

It's not sample characters. It's packages. And I am much more inclined to use these.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080222a&authentic=true

 

[Cadfan]

I believe by "path" he means things like "brawny rogue" vs "tricky rogue." This is a choice which does in fact have an effect in the game, since it grants a class ability and affects how some later powers function.

Overall, I don't think it will be that bad. Yes, if your goal is to make a wise and informed choice between all the different races, classes, and builds you can accomplish in 4e, there's going to be a lot to digest. But if your goal is to open the book and make a good wizard, it looks like that will be a lot easier than it used to be.

 

[Campbell]

I don't think they ever intended to simplify character creation. My guess is that the intent was to make most character creation choices more meaningful while minimizing accounting, moving away from choices that are objectively poor, normalizing character complexity to a middle ground most people can accept, and making planning ahead less necessary.

For the most part I don't think most players had an issue with character creation in 3e - the issue was largely with NPC creation being plugged into the same system as PC creation.