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<blockquote data-quote="Lela" data-source="post: 860003" data-attributes="member: 1216">To me it seemed like much of the argument was flavor already.&nbsp; To take your statement about surprise as an example:From a game rules standpoint, I don't see how that could apply.&nbsp; With Armor Check penalty to Hide and Move Silently from a shield, the Ranger is actually better at attacking by surprise in melee.&nbsp; Ranged, the same foilage that helps you stay hidden provides a cover bonus to the goblin your shooting at.To me, obvious feats for a Ranger are Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack.&nbsp; And now that Dodge is improving, it's even more valuable--in fact, I might adopt the M&amp;M Dodge as a house rule, but that's beside the point.With Spring Attack (and possible Boots of S&amp;S) the Ranger is made perfectly for moving and striking.&nbsp; And those who try for an AoO when he's moving are in for a surprise with Mobility.That said, I definitally see the apeal of the bow.&nbsp; You may recall my mentioning of my munchkin player with multishot.&nbsp; Bowman can be amazing and a great help to any party--I just don't like it when they take down an Ancient Red Wyrm in a single round.Going along with the LotR theme that's come up, look to Legolos (in the movie at least) for an example of both styles of fighting working wonderfully together.And just think, with Combat Paths you can now do both easily.&nbsp; Just use your regular feats for TWF and the chosen Path as Archery (or vice versa).&nbsp; Edit: Just realized this could take away from the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack thing.&nbsp; But I guess we can't all be Legolos. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lela, post: 860003, member: 1216"] To me it seemed like much of the argument was flavor already. To take your statement about surprise as an example: From a game rules standpoint, I don't see how that could apply. With Armor Check penalty to Hide and Move Silently from a shield, the Ranger is actually better at attacking by surprise in melee. Ranged, the same foilage that helps you stay hidden provides a cover bonus to the goblin your shooting at. To me, obvious feats for a Ranger are Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. And now that Dodge is improving, it's even more valuable--in fact, I might adopt the M&M Dodge as a house rule, but that's beside the point. With Spring Attack (and possible Boots of S&S) the Ranger is made perfectly for moving and striking. And those who try for an AoO when he's moving are in for a surprise with Mobility. That said, I definitally see the apeal of the bow. You may recall my mentioning of my munchkin player with multishot. Bowman can be amazing and a great help to any party--I just don't like it when they take down an Ancient Red Wyrm in a single round. Going along with the LotR theme that's come up, look to Legolos (in the movie at least) for an example of both styles of fighting working wonderfully together. And just think, with Combat Paths you can now do both easily. Just use your regular feats for TWF and the chosen Path as Archery (or vice versa). Edit: Just realized this could take away from the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack thing. But I guess we can't all be Legolos. ;) [/QUOTE]

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